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  #21  
Old 15.06.2011, 22:04
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

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I just pulled B1 out of a hat since that is the last course I took. My German has certainly improved in the three years since, but it's anybody's guess by how much...
For whatever it's worth, the Goethe Institute offers an online test. As I recall, it might not give you your current level immediately after you take it, but you will be contacted by them shortly with a "course recommendation" indicating at what level to start their (expensive) online courses. I came in at beginning B2.
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Old 15.06.2011, 22:19
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

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*Stilsicheres Deutsch" generally means to be able to WRITE in a decent German, and usually has NOT to do much with the spoken language.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. Customer facing roles, say a relationship manager at a private bank, has to SPEAK stilsicher just as well. It means that you can form sentences with more than three words plus ", oder?" at the end. That would be the 98% locals Frank mentioned...
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Old 15.06.2011, 22:23
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

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For whatever it's worth, the Goethe Institute offers an online test. As I recall, it might not give you your current level immediately after you take it, but you will be contacted by them shortly with a "course recommendation" indicating at what level to start their (expensive) online courses. I came in at beginning B2.
Out of mere curiosity, I just did that test, and the report said, "Sie haben 30 von 30 Aufgaben richtig gelöst. Prima! Ihre Deutschkenntnisse sind schon fast perfekt. " Now I wonder how those guys know that my knowledge of German is only "almost perfect" and not absolutely perfect.
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Old 15.06.2011, 22:36
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

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For whatever it's worth, the Goethe Institute offers an online test. As I recall, it might not give you your current level immediately after you take it, but you will be contacted by them shortly with a "course recommendation" indicating at what level to start their (expensive) online courses. I came in at beginning B2.
Just took the test: I got 23 out of 30 right, and the same comment as Capt. Greybeard ("Deutschkenntnisse schon fast perfekt"). I wasn't asked for an email address at any point, so not sure how they can contact me with level recommendations. Maybe I need to get in touch with the testing center in Zürich.
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Old 15.06.2011, 22:48
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

Stilsicheres Deutsch would mean pretty competent in both writing and
speaking.... IMHO. I would say about a C1 level in both.
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Old 16.06.2011, 00:30
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

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...Now I wonder how those guys know that my knowledge of German is only "almost perfect" and not absolutely perfect.
Because your IP was in CH?

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...I wasn't asked for an email address at any point, so not sure how they can contact me with level recommendations...
Oops! Sorry — I guess that wasn't the exact same Goethe test that I originally took, then. I was definitely asked for an email address, and received a course recommendation afterwards.

(BTW, I just tried that test, too: 24 of 30.)
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  #27  
Old 16.06.2011, 07:13
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

Go for it. With your level of qualification, Stilsicheres Deutsch is not going to be an issue.
Nobody fits everything and a company will balance the requirements. They know they won't easily find somebody else like you, so they'll most probably skip the Stilsicheres Deutsch.

Hope it works out
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Old 16.06.2011, 08:14
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

Do not fret about your German. It's very good. More importantly, you've got skills the employer is in desperate need of. He will hire you for those skills and gladly overlook any "der" "die" and "das" problems you might have.

Trust me. Good luck.
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  #29  
Old 16.06.2011, 12:42
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

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Do not fret about your German. It's very good. More importantly, you've got skills the employer is in desperate need of. He will hire you for those skills and gladly overlook any "der" "die" and "das" problems you might have.

Trust me. Good luck.
I not sure what the job is/was. If you are dealing directly with customers, good German is "unabdingbar".
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  #30  
Old 16.06.2011, 12:59
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

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I not sure what the job is/was. If you are dealing directly with customers, good German is "unabdingbar".
I would even say it's geboten, probably relevant, vielleicht lebensnotwendig, total unersetzlich, extrem dringend, gar zwingend, hoch gewünscht, praktisch unabwendbar, hoch gewichtig, praktisch unbezahlbar, total vonnöten, enorm unerläßlich, absolut gefordert, völlig unausweichlich... what was the topic again ?
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Old 16.06.2011, 13:37
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

That's it - "hoch geschätzt" they said it was. or "würde".

I have talked to the person who's encouraging me to apply, mentioned (again) that I am not sure my German is up to it. Her response was along the same lines as W-Maximus's: "what you don't know, you'll learn." Basically if another candidate with superior German AND my technical qualifications comes along, I'll be sunk - other than that she reckons I stand a chance. Being married to one of these EU types, my own appalling non-EU-ness isn't an issue as it would have been last year.

She has also kindly offered to look over my application, so waiting to submit it until she's had a chance to do that. I'll update this thread when I get some news.
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  #32  
Old 16.06.2011, 13:49
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

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Basically if another candidate with superior German AND my technical qualifications comes along, I'll be sunk - other than that she reckons I stand a chance.
But isn't that always the case? If somebody else has the same and more, he will win. Only exception would be if they are looking for the skills plus "very profficient English"...

Go and apply for it.

When I write job descriptions, I like to use terms like stilsicher as well: It scares off some 20% of the people who are unqualified anyway... the important point is not the adjective, but the rest... It makes a huge difference if it reads:

- stilsicheres Deutsch erwünscht
or
- stilsicheres Deutsch zwingend erforderlich
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Old 16.06.2011, 14:05
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

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I would even say it's geboten, probably relevant, vielleicht lebensnotwendig, total unersetzlich, extrem dringend, gar zwingend, hoch gewünscht, praktisch unabwendbar, hoch gewichtig, praktisch unbezahlbar, total vonnöten, enorm unerläßlich, absolut gefordert, völlig unausweichlich... what was the topic again ?
You are naughty.

Employers need to have 100 specific requirements for a job, just to make sure to get at least half of what they want.
And also ... in order to scare off all those Uslaender out there (even hiding behind Swiss passports!) who don't speak an awful lot of any of the languages holy to the nation.

To the OP: Come on, just apply. Good luck!

(I'll do the same as soon as I'll land... Valais beware! )
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  #34  
Old 16.06.2011, 14:10
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

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... in order to scare off all those Uslaender out there (even hiding behind Swiss passports!) who don't speak an awful lot of any of the languages holy to the nation.
Sorry, but that's not the case here: The largest group of foreigners in Zurich speaks German and is definitely more stilsicher than Swiss. If you want to filter out Ausländer, which I have seen regularly, the requirement is something as dubious as:
- fliessend Schweizerdeutsch erforderlich
or
- Schweizerdeutsch als Muttersprache

Yes, that's normal and probably legal. Example:
http://www.jobs.ch/en/job/Finance-Tr...3725483/17/1/0
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Old 16.06.2011, 14:13
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Re: "Stilsichere Deutschkenntnisse" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

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...PS - of course the silver lining is that they want "stilsicheres Englisch" as well.
Good job you've got DB to keep you on the straight and narrow then...







<runs for cover>
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  #36  
Old 16.06.2011, 14:21
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

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- fliessend Schweizerdeutsch erforderlich
or
- Schweizerdeutsch als Muttersprache
Oi oi oi... One of those I had never seen. Though I did fail to notice one time on the requirements for a job: they said "Architekt" not "ArchitektIn", so I got a really nasty answer saying they are not looking for anyone of that worthless gender.

Probably also proved my German sucks, though...
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Old 16.06.2011, 15:27
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

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Sorry, but that's not the case here: The largest group of foreigners in Zurich speaks German and is definitely more stilsicher than Swiss. If you want to filter out Ausländer, which I have seen regularly, the requirement is something as dubious as:
- fliessend Schweizerdeutsch erforderlich
or
- Schweizerdeutsch als Muttersprache

Yes, that's normal and probably legal. Example:
http://www.jobs.ch/en/job/Finance-Tr...3725483/17/1/0
Interesting.

Thanks for pointing out that the largest group of foreigners speaks German...

... but I DIDN'T say: "...to scare off ALL Uslaender BECAUSE they DON'T speak German".
I SAID " to ...scare off all THOSE Uslaender WHO DON'T speak a lot of German".
Which is different .. to me at least.

As for your attached ad: You are right, they even mention the mother tongue twice in the requirements.
But they don't require German at all, even though they mention it in the tasks..
Shouldn't it be mentioned with the 5 other languages?

Overall, the ad doesn't look very well structured to me - so, I won't apply.
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  #38  
Old 16.06.2011, 15:45
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

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"Stilsicheres Deutsch" would also exclude about 98% of all Swiss.
Quite a few do not speak any German! LOL.

I'd say go for it - nothing to lose.
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  #39  
Old 16.06.2011, 15:52
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Re: "Stilsicheres Deutsch" - er, that's higher than B1, isn't it?

I am very untertained by the diversity of definitions given for that expression. To me, it's just the usual jargon written in that kind of advert. It's only supposed to mean something if they need it to mean something (I know, difficult sentence).

Good luck with your application!
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