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Old 08.06.2011, 14:56
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why does management team do this?

i am having this issue which i can not get my head around it. hope all the fellow EFers can offer some opinions. and many thanks in advance for your help.

this is the story:
i was working for this international company back home and the head office in Zurich offered me a job, so i came over to work. just like everyone else, moving to a new country, trying to settle in and building a new life here. 6 months later, i realised what i have been doing is not what i was promised when they recruited me. so i have gone into discussions with the management team (all Swiss) many many times to talk about my career progression with an open attitude and hoped there would be an answer or solution or plan etc. at least some feedback. 3 more months later, i waited and tried to find out the answer / solution / plan or feedback, pretty much there was nothing they wanted to do for me. i was very disappointed. so i figured out there is no point staying here and wasting my time doing something is not helping my career (especially i came here to work to start with). i liked my previous job back home, when i agreed to come over, i thought this was for something bigger and a good challenge, it turned out to be back stepped.

now i am leaving, to get my closure (normally i wouldn't quit my job quickly or easily and moving is not fun!) - i wanted to know what's the reason they didn't progress me, i have started looking for the REAL answers. i went back to the management team again, and asked, the answer i got was 'i was not good enough'.

- if i was not good enough, why hired me outside EUs to start with?
- if i was not good enough, why not telling me when there were so many chances to communicate? at least i could've had a chance to prove and improve.

so the management team recognised the error they made due to poor communication, the willingness from them to amend is very low.

of course i have reviewed myself many times - have i not tried hard enough? and what have i done wrong?
at the end of the day, i seriously think they don't trust me. and then why??

i have the qualification and experience, frankly i am over qualified for my job, i have been here long enough for them to tell me if i was not good enough. in addition, all these time i wanted to progress into xxx. and management team surely are aware of xxx position is opened, and not even bothered telling me after knowing what i wanted to progress into.
 
so what is it?? what do they have to hold against me? i wouldn't think i was a 'threat' to them at all, besides we are in the same department.
why hired me and don't trust or progress me?
 
i truly don't understand. what did i miss exactly???
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Old 08.06.2011, 15:04
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Re: why does management team do this?

This , old bean, is really only something that someone within the company can tell you. this is not a question of swiss culture but purely intercompany politics and therefore only someone with intimate knowledge of the companies procedures and customs can tell you why what has happened has happened. Its a shame and maybe you will find another opening here rather than to return home deflated. i hope so for you.
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Old 08.06.2011, 15:04
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Re: why does management team do this?

If I read you correctly, you have tried to open a frank discussion to find out what's going on and you've been stonewalled?

If they're not treating you right and not communicating properly and you're unhappy, mabe it's just time to quit. Even if they didn't mean to be malicious, maybe they are just poor communicators or maybe they are disappointed in you as much as you are in them which is why they're not entrusting difficult or advanced work to you and passing you by on promotions.

If you can communicate, do. But if you've tried repeatedly and it's not working, the you're maybe just wasting your time and talent and it's time to take it where it's appreciated more.
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Old 08.06.2011, 15:05
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Re: why does management team do this?

Maybe you missed cultural alignment.
I quit now a job in my country because they want people with result oriented.
If there is not enough resources, you do not paid overtime.
IF the departament has not the right tools, you do weekends to study a proper tool.
You never say no.

I said no because i had a job contract not a slave contract.
Their reference for my current company is: Performance lower than colleagues.

What they do not say is of a team of 9, 4 have already left.
In a company of 150 people, 30 or more left in the last 6 months.
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Old 08.06.2011, 15:18
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Re: why does management team do this?

If in talking directly to them about this they did not give you path forward for improvement based on specified metrics, then their answer that you are 'not good enough' is rather suspect. It may be that they felt that you did not integrate well with the team. It may be that they hired you and then didn't have the money to keep you. If you felt that you were working hard and being proactive in finding solutions and not sitting around taking half hour coffee breaks every two hours then I'd say that their answer is a lot of garbage. I was once hired to do what I felt was a very interesting and challenging job, based on the job description. I got to do absolutely none of it. I ended up doing a lot of 'grunt' work that the hiring manager didn't want to do. Eventually, I moved on to another group after they asked if I would be interested in doing task X. I flat out said no and they let me go. On the way out, the manager said 'Well, we didn't really want to hire you anyway'. Never underestimate the lengths people will go to to cover up their own failures.
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Old 08.06.2011, 15:33
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Re: why does management team do this?

Sometimes, however good you may be, if your face doesn't fit there is little that you can do.

Trying to remedy the situation usually just causes stress and frustration. As unfair as it may be, the best case for your welfare is to move on to a company where you are appreciated.

The lesson to learn from this is to involve yourself more from day one. Don't wait for formal appraisals. Check with management to see if you are meeting their expectations. Don't assume that everything is fine just because nobody has said anything to the contrary.
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Old 08.06.2011, 16:13
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Re: why does management team do this?

Short answer is 'Because we can'.

Long answer is sometimes the Management makes decisions that they are forced to make by others over them. They may not like it but they play along because the higher ups tasked them to do so. You seem to be caught in the middle of it..

Try to get out of that department.. If that does not work.. fold your hand.. cash in your chips.. and go to the next casino to gamble... Kaapish?

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i am having this issue which i can not get my head around it. hope all the fellow EFers can offer some opinions. and many thanks in advance for your help.

this is the story:
i was working for this international company back home and the head office in Zurich offered me a job, so i came over to work. just like everyone else, moving to a new country, trying to settle in and building a new life here. 6 months later, i realised what i have been doing is not what i was promised when they recruited me. so i have gone into discussions with the management team (all Swiss) many many times to talk about my career progression with an open attitude and hoped there would be an answer or solution or plan etc. at least some feedback. 3 more months later, i waited and tried to find out the answer / solution / plan or feedback, pretty much there was nothing they wanted to do for me. i was very disappointed. so i figured out there is no point staying here and wasting my time doing something is not helping my career (especially i came here to work to start with). i liked my previous job back home, when i agreed to come over, i thought this was for something bigger and a good challenge, it turned out to be back stepped.

now i am leaving, to get my closure (normally i wouldn't quit my job quickly or easily and moving is not fun!) - i wanted to know what's the reason they didn't progress me, i have started looking for the REAL answers. i went back to the management team again, and asked, the answer i got was 'i was not good enough'.

- if i was not good enough, why hired me outside EUs to start with?
- if i was not good enough, why not telling me when there were so many chances to communicate? at least i could've had a chance to prove and improve.

so the management team recognised the error they made due to poor communication, the willingness from them to amend is very low.

of course i have reviewed myself many times - have i not tried hard enough? and what have i done wrong?
at the end of the day, i seriously think they don't trust me. and then why??

i have the qualification and experience, frankly i am over qualified for my job, i have been here long enough for them to tell me if i was not good enough. in addition, all these time i wanted to progress into xxx. and management team surely are aware of xxx position is opened, and not even bothered telling me after knowing what i wanted to progress into.
 
so what is it?? what do they have to hold against me? i wouldn't think i was a 'threat' to them at all, besides we are in the same department.
why hired me and don't trust or progress me?
 
i truly don't understand. what did i miss exactly???
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Old 08.06.2011, 16:39
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Re: why does management team do this?

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If you can communicate, do. But if you've tried repeatedly and it's not working, the you're maybe just wasting your time and talent and it's time to take it where it's appreciated more.
Totally agree.

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If in talking directly to them about this they did not give you path forward for improvement based on specified metrics, then their answer that you are 'not good enough' is rather suspect. It may be that they felt that you did not integrate well with the team. It may be that they hired you and then didn't have the money to keep you. If you felt that you were working hard and being proactive in finding solutions and not sitting around taking half hour coffee breaks every two hours then I'd say that their answer is a lot of garbage. I was once hired to do what I felt was a very interesting and challenging job, based on the job description. I got to do absolutely none of it. I ended up doing a lot of 'grunt' work that the hiring manager didn't want to do. Eventually, I moved on to another group after they asked if I would be interested in doing task X. I flat out said no and they let me go. On the way out, the manager said 'Well, we didn't really want to hire you anyway'. Never underestimate the lengths people will go to to cover up their own failures.
This about covers it...especially about the lengths higher-ups will go to not to give you the truth. It seems that in your situation, you will never know the real reason for why things didn't work out. You appear to have tried to communicate and if it is not reciprocated, there is nothing else you can do... No sense in wasting your efforts. full stop.
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Old 08.06.2011, 16:55
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Re: why does management team do this?

If you're not getting a proper communication from your managers, and it sounds like you aren't, have you tried talking to HR or your old boss back home? They may be able to get you some perspective.

Sadly your experience is not unusual. Internal job transfers, especially overseas ones, are fraught with these kinds of risks. I've seen it all too often.
And the reality of it is, if there is no formal feedback procedure, you may never get truthful answers to your questions. Good luck.
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Old 08.06.2011, 17:08
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Re: why does management team do this?

It cannot be failure on the part of management - they get paid far more than you, so they must be right - therefore it can only be failure on your part.
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Old 08.06.2011, 17:39
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Re: why does management team do this?

You did your part, if they are not willing then it's time to move on forward....it works this way
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Old 08.06.2011, 17:44
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Re: why does management team do this?

I do not know what your cultural background is/ where you are from. But honestly:

When I started a job, I never got what the hiring manager promised before. They are selling a job to you and selling always includes a bit of, well, "exaggeration" of how interesting the job is or how important you are.

The story reminds me so much of my own situation that I could wonder if we work in the same company... but then again I am aware that many many Swiss companies are like that.
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Old 08.06.2011, 22:24
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Re: why does management team do this?

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When I started a job, I never got what the hiring manager promised before. They are selling a job to you and selling always includes a bit of, well, "exaggeration" of how interesting the job is or how important you are.


I am not sure if this is 100% true, but I have heard many stories that people felt being ‘downgraded’ when they came across to work ……….
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Old 08.06.2011, 23:09
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Re: why does management team do this?

Partly it is difficult to comment because we do not have all the facts (and cannot see inside the management's heads), but their response that you were not good enough is probably not the whole answer.

One problem with international transfers is that the employee's expectations are very high. Now you feel let down, and rightly so since you went to all the trouble of moving to another country.

There is no easy answer, but it is usually the case that if the management likes you, then you will do well, and if they don't...

It is similar to a personal relationship. Compatability is the key. Skills etc are secondary considerations.

Consider yourself an apple in a company that wants oranges. You just have to move to an apple company, and all will be fine.
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Old 08.06.2011, 23:12
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Re: why does management team do this?

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I am not sure if this is 100% true, but I have heard many stories that people felt being ‘downgraded’ when they came across to work ……….
Treverus is right. HR are very good at selling the job to you and will often exaggerate the level of responsibility and thrill as well as the promotion opportunities if they want you in that job. They are salesmen so treat their words the way you would treat those of any other salesman. Just as when buying a secondhand car, anything that isn't in writing can be considered never to have been said, and everything that is said can be considered to have some bias in their favour. I learnt this the hard way in my first job too but once you accept it and correct the bias inside your brain it's actually quite OK.
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Old 08.06.2011, 23:53
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Re: why does management team do this?

Do you still want to stay in Zurich? then look for another job, talk to agents, get your CV up to date.

If you want your old job back, go ask for it. See whether it is still there..

I am afraid life is not plain sailing. You will get bumps but then there is highs. If it is just plain sailing, life will be very boring.

Everything you encountered, it is an experience - good or bad, does not matter - that make up our life. People attributed to "gut feel" too much as it is really our "experience" that tell us what might be happening because we were there before. So take this as an experience and move on.

"Why" is the hardest thing to explain. If you ask me why I take this bus and not that tram to work this morning. I might give you 20 different reasons but is that the absolute "reason"? As long as you can live with the outcome, then let it be. Be Happy..

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Old 09.06.2011, 00:40
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Re: why does management team do this?

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i am having this issue which i can not get my head around it. hope all the fellow EFers can offer some opinions. and many thanks in advance for your help.

this is the story:
i was working for this international company back home and the head office in Zurich offered me a job, so i came over to work. just like everyone else, moving to a new country, trying to settle in and building a new life here. 6 months later, i realised what i have been doing is not what i was promised when they recruited me. so i have gone into discussions with the management team (all Swiss) many many times to talk about my career progression with an open attitude and hoped there would be an answer or solution or plan etc. at least some feedback. 3 more months later, i waited and tried to find out the answer / solution / plan or feedback, pretty much there was nothing they wanted to do for me. i was very disappointed. so i figured out there is no point staying here and wasting my time doing something is not helping my career (especially i came here to work to start with). i liked my previous job back home, when i agreed to come over, i thought this was for something bigger and a good challenge, it turned out to be back stepped.

now i am leaving, to get my closure (normally i wouldn't quit my job quickly or easily and moving is not fun!) - i wanted to know what's the reason they didn't progress me, i have started looking for the REAL answers. i went back to the management team again, and asked, the answer i got was 'i was not good enough'.

- if i was not good enough, why hired me outside EUs to start with?
- if i was not good enough, why not telling me when there were so many chances to communicate? at least i could've had a chance to prove and improve.

so the management team recognised the error they made due to poor communication, the willingness from them to amend is very low.

of course i have reviewed myself many times - have i not tried hard enough? and what have i done wrong?
at the end of the day, i seriously think they don't trust me. and then why??

i have the qualification and experience, frankly i am over qualified for my job, i have been here long enough for them to tell me if i was not good enough. in addition, all these time i wanted to progress into xxx. and management team surely are aware of xxx position is opened, and not even bothered telling me after knowing what i wanted to progress into.
 
so what is it?? what do they have to hold against me? i wouldn't think i was a 'threat' to them at all, besides we are in the same department.
why hired me and don't trust or progress me?
 
i truly don't understand. what did i miss exactly???
not clear how you're going about it, but maybe one on one informal chats might get you the answer. to dig down in what ways you were not good enough and to get specific examples.
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