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  #21  
Old 13.06.2011, 11:06
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

You've stuck to the terms of the 100% contract. I wouldn't accept any back-dated deal. They're rolling one over on you, so make them be forthright and honest about it. Plus, if you accept a back-dated deal then you're not getting 100% of your pay for 100% of the work you did.

And get everything in writing! Let the boss know any discussions have to be negotiated via e-mail or formal letter, and verbal communications require a 3rd party witness.
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  #22  
Old 13.06.2011, 11:18
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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It would be worth going along to RAV now and asking your options. You will need a German speaker with you to help interpret. I believe RAV get very interested when employers try to duck out of their legal obligations.

Cheers,
Nick
I agree with this step. The company sounds like it is making some very questionable moves with the OP. Asking them to write a backdated letter sounds borderline illegal to me for a start.

Also, I have had the self-same conversation with my HR department not so long ago where they offered me 60% instead of 100%. At the time, they were very upfront with me and said it was just an offer, and I was under no obligation to take it.

As it happens, I took the offer but was able to stipulate within a generous window when it would take effect.

The OP will lose out with any of the options but he or she needs to find out which option will cause the least impact on her or him. The company, obviously, is looking for the cheapest solution.

OP - look after yourself and your interests because you can be sure that the company is looking after itself just fine.

Last edited by Sandgrounder; 13.06.2011 at 11:30. Reason: typo
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  #23  
Old 13.06.2011, 12:15
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

I don't believe you will be forced to accept the 60% offer, indeed why would you even need to tell RAV, if it is less than the benefits you would be entitled to? Simply show them the termination letter. As a British politician would say, be economical with the truth.
The only problem would be if your employer informed them out of cussedness.
I would suggest getting some advice soon. Don't be scared of the RAV. They've seen it all before, and are pretty helpful. But there other organisations that can advise you, and the RAV will even tell you who they are.

However, bear a couple of things in mind:-
  • the RAV limit is 70/80% of CHF 10,500 for 2011. If your 60% role pays more than CHF 7350, forget the RAV. Take the offer, end of, and look for something else. I'm assuming you are single.

  • If you did chose to take the 60% option, and your gross salary was less then the RAV limits, they would make up the difference, plus a bit more. They call it Zwischenverdienst.
  • I don't believe RAV necessarily do contact your previous employer, other than maybe to confirm your earnings. You have to produce payslips, and the termination letter. When I came to Switzerland 10 years ago, unemployment was around 1.6%. It peaked a year ago at 4.2% and its around 3.5 now. They just don't have time for it.
  • Someone suggested taking the 60% role, and then asking for time off for interviews. Your employer will laugh. 40% free time not enough for that?
  • If your contract states a calendar months notice period, simply take a copy, highlight that paragraph, and show it to your boss. There is no discussion, no backdating your notice period. It must be in writing legally, not verbally, and they must post it to your address.
I agree with other comments that taking the 60% shows a willingness to other employers. The RAV will only insist on it, if they know about it.

Good luck
Pasty
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  #24  
Old 13.06.2011, 12:27
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

There is an official form that the employer has to fill out. They will probably state that they are offering a new contract for 60%.
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Old 13.06.2011, 13:01
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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Tell her that you will not accept the notice as it's illegal and that she will be hearing from your lawyer!
Come on; this is the real world!
She will obviously deny what she said otherwise the offer would have been in writing.
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Old 13.06.2011, 13:09
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

Another thing to keep in mind is that you are insured for a certain amount of days with 70% wages. If you only get paid 40% then you get almost twice as much RAV days than if your totally unemployed
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  #27  
Old 13.06.2011, 13:19
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

Wow! So many replies! This is great! My contract stipulates that I have to give notice at the end of a celndar month, and that after the 3 month probation period of the 60% contract, I have to work another 3 months...so I dint think she would change that.

Another few facts about my situation: My 60% salary would be around 3,200 after taxes, which is peanuts...I am married, and I am starting an online business which is going well, but am still not making a profit and will not do so for another couple of years. I actually wanted to cut down my hours at my jb, but not so astrally as what she offered. So now, whatever job I do next, I would need to still take into account my own business....
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  #28  
Old 13.06.2011, 13:30
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

One thing to bear in mind when talking about 70% and 80% of previous salary is that the amount of salary taken into consideration for the calculation of unemployment benefit is capped. Currently, the cap is set at 8,900 CHF per month.

This means that the most you can possibly get from RAV, even if you are 100% unemployed and even if you were on a huge salary beforehand, is:

80% of 8900 CHF (7,120 CHF a month) if you satisfy the conditions,
70% of 8900 CHF (6,220 CHF a month) if you don't.
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  #29  
Old 13.06.2011, 14:04
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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Someone suggested taking the 60% role, and then asking for time off for interviews. Your employer will laugh. 40% free time not enough for that?
You do not know this, it's just your opinion. If you don't ask you don't get. A new contract is a new negotiation and you don't have to mildly accept just what you're first offered.

In any case, the point is not so much to have the extra time (I also pointed out 2 free days is good for looking for a new job), although that could be useful as job interviews might not always be able to fit a restricted schedule. The point is also make it very clear to the employer that they will be losing an employee altogether if they force her into a work arrangement that she is not happy with.

Anyway, with the OP's new information about wanting to reduce work hours anyway, I think she should think very carefully about what she wants from her job. This might be a blessing in disguise if RAV will top up a 60% salary to over 80% but she gets extra time to work on the online business. It's true that the way the employer has behaved is poor, but it might be worth putting up with that in the short/medium term rather than having to search for and start a new job which is bound to take a lot of effort that could be better expended on the new business.
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Old 13.06.2011, 14:08
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

Looks like your in a win win situation. You'll get 70% of the 40% missing hours paid by RAV. Have time to look for another job (what ever %) and build up your on-line business. Thank God for unemployment insurance.

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Wow! So many replies! This is great! My contract stipulates that I have to give notice at the end of a celndar month, and that after the 3 month probation period of the 60% contract, I have to work another 3 months...so I dint think she would change that.

Another few facts about my situation: My 60% salary would be around 3,200 after taxes, which is peanuts...I am married, and I am starting an online business which is going well, but am still not making a profit and will not do so for another couple of years. I actually wanted to cut down my hours at my jb, but not so astrally as what she offered. So now, whatever job I do next, I would need to still take into account my own business....
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  #31  
Old 13.06.2011, 14:30
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

Am not worried about the capped amount as I never made that much anyway.
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  #32  
Old 13.06.2011, 14:34
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

Yes you are all right. The 60% could be a blessing in disguise...but my idea was NOT to accept it, because I have a feeling she will need me, as I created everything in my job, and she will find it VERY difficult to find someone to do all the things I can do, for that crap pay. I think I may have a better chance if I turn down the offer and then try to renegotiate at a later time with either better pay, or better conditions, which for me and my other business, would be better hours and more flexible time.
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  #33  
Old 13.06.2011, 14:59
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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You've stuck to the terms of the 100% contract. I wouldn't accept any back-dated deal. They're rolling one over on you, so make them be forthright and honest about it. Plus, if you accept a back-dated deal then you're not getting 100% of your pay for 100% of the work you did.

And get everything in writing! Let the boss know any discussions have to be negotiated via e-mail or formal letter, and verbal communications require a 3rd party witness.
When I got notice a few years ago it was done correctly by the end of the appropriate month and by registered letter.

In any dispute the authorities can demand to see proof of the registered letter and without that the employer doesn't have a leg to stand on.
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  #34  
Old 13.06.2011, 15:08
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

That's Good to know. So far I have written her a letter telling her we should do thngsproperly,and therefore she needs to change the details stated on the letter. Can't wait to see what she says, or if she will comply...
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Old 13.06.2011, 15:13
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That's Good to know. So far I have written her a letter telling her we should do things properly,and therefore she needs to change the details stated on the letter. Can't wait to see what she says, or if she will comply...
You should send the letter by registered post, and keep the receipt in a safe place.
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  #36  
Old 13.06.2011, 15:36
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

Sorry to back track, but it was mentioned that if I took the 60% contract, the RAV might cover my income with 70% of the outstanding 40% of my salary. But how long would they be willing to do this for? The usual 2 year period? Or less?
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  #37  
Old 13.06.2011, 15:50
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

If you do sign on at RAV for your 40%, don't forget you will have to show proof of searching for a job. Best thing to do is make an appointment and find out.
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  #38  
Old 13.06.2011, 17:01
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

You have a 100% contract, any changes to that (from 100 to 60%) require the proper legal notice period.

If you do not accept the 60% contract the RAV state that you got yourself fired, and will fine you 6 weeks support (30 days' unemployment money) !

Accept the 60% contract, make sure it begins after the notice peiod of your present contract. If it doesn't go to the "Arbeitsgericht" (Swiss court for employment) whom will give you free advice on what to do next. They have the power to stop a company trading immediately.

Sign on with the RAV and get the above mentioned unemployment compensation.

You don't have any better choices!
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Old 13.06.2011, 18:54
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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You do not know this, it's just your opinion. If you don't ask you don't get. A new contract is a new negotiation and you don't have to mildly accept just what you're first offered.
Oh come off it. What employer is going to give you additional time off to look for work, when you are only working a 3 day week anyway. and you have accepted the role on the basis that you are going to look for other positions, and not stay put??!!
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Old 13.06.2011, 19:43
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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Another thing to keep in mind is that you are insured for a certain amount of days with 70% wages. If you only get paid 40% then you get almost twice as much RAV days than if your totally unemployed
It does not work quite like that.

Assuming 18 months previouse employment you get 400 days over the next 2 years or 480 working days.

If you have only worked for 12 months I think it's 260 days over the next 480 working days.
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