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  #41  
Old 13.06.2011, 19:50
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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Oh come off it. What employer is going to give you additional time off to look for work, when you are only working a 3 day week anyway. and you have accepted the role on the basis that you are going to look for other positions, and not stay put??!!
During the notice period they have to give you time to go to the RAV & any job interviews etc, it's a legal requirement.
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Old 13.06.2011, 20:04
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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During the notice period they have to give you time to go to the RAV & any job interviews etc, it's a legal requirement.
When he's on 3 days a week, he's not on a notice period, he's operating under a different contract.
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  #43  
Old 13.06.2011, 20:16
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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It does not work quite like that.

Assuming 18 months previouse employment you get 400 days over the next 2 years or 480 working days.

If you have only worked for 12 months I think it's 260 days over the next 480 working days.
Ok from what I gathered the amount of days got extended if you only take a portion of the working days. In that case I'm mistaken
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  #44  
Old 13.06.2011, 20:27
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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It would be worth going along to RAV now and asking your options. You will need a German speaker with you to help interpret. I believe RAV get very interested when employers try to duck out of their legal obligations.

Cheers,
Nick
You don't necessarily need a German speaker . They do have English speakers there depending on which office you have to register with, you just have to be politley persistant ! I was and managed to get one but I had to listen to the 'You must speak German you are in Switzerland' Swiss flag waving song first!

Your boss sounds a right b....ch , perhaps she was related to my old boss!

That 60% thing though, its all a bit iffy with Rav, its like dammed if you do damed if you don't to tell them. I have never been required or forced to look for a 60% job or a temp job while being 'employed by 'The Kanton of Zurich Rav' As another person said they are different contracts though, I can't really see how the rav can expect you to take it. Although you will not get any money unless the personnel fill out the Rav forms to their liking , so it is important to have the correct reason for leaving 'made redundant' as you have been with NO mention of this mystery 60% job .

I totally understand why you would not want to spend 60% of your week working for this idiot of a women!

Good luck!

Last edited by Cosmicgirl; 13.06.2011 at 20:33. Reason: typo
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  #45  
Old 13.06.2011, 20:39
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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Not sure how long you've been working for this company but usually there is a 3 months notice period!

Tell her that you will not accept the notice as it's illegal and that she will be hearing from your lawyer! You shouldn't let her pressure you into this kind of deal unless of course she can come up with a shiny spotless reference letter but still 3 months notice and not just 1!!
Swiss job contracts are negotiable. The rule book (OR) mentions notice periods, but only as a standard, when both parties agree to abide by the OR rules or by default, when no notice period is mentioned in the contract. In effect the notice period can be just one day.
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  #46  
Old 13.06.2011, 20:49
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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I have read through a lot of posts regarding unemployment benefit and how I have to go about things, but I need some advice on my particular situation, and any advice would me most appreciated:

On Monday my boss took me into her office and told me that she was going to terminate my 100% contract and offer me a 60% contract. It was a bit of a surprise, but with all the restructuring in my workplace, it did not shock me. She then went on to make it out as if it was a great thing for me, and said she would pretend as if we had the conversation the week before so that I could leave a month early (my contract clearly states either side can only cancel a contract at the end of a calendar month) ...which in NO WAY makes sense as that would mean one month less employment for me. Anyhow, i turned down her offer for 60% as my salary was already lower than the average someone in my job and responsibility should make, and i realize that if I were unemployed, my benefits would be 70%, which is 10% more than what she was offering.

At this point her 60% offer was only verbal and I didn't have anything in my hands. Then, on Friday she called me into her office and gave me the Termination of Contract for my 100%, and backdated it to the end of the last month so that it now states I will lose my job 1 month before the real time it should.

My questions are the following:

1) Since I have to get her to re-write my resignation letter with the correct dates (can't believe she was dodgy enough to try to backdate a letter so she could stop me working a month earlier at 100%). Would it help if my termination of contract also states that she is offering me the 60%?

2) If I sign on as unemployed and they see that my contract was cancelled BUT I was offered a 60% job, will they refuse to give me my unemployment benefits straight away? Will I have to take the 60% job offer? Even if it pays too little? The way I see it is that 60% of my already sh*t 100% salary is crap and I would prefer to try and find a decent salary job or at least one that pays better at a better %. If I work 60% at my job....it won't REALLY be 60%...it will be me doing my 100% job in that timeframe, and I won't have much time to look for another job.

Please, if anyone out there has any advice, that would be great. My boss does not play by the rules, but I don't want this to get ugly. I need a good reference letter from her....
Pre-dating a job contract contravenes the law. As many have already suggested, it is the best of the worst at hand, if you stick on. However, make sure that you report to RAV with your 100% employment benefit and not wait till the 60% job contract is through. By accepting the 60% job offer, you would have leeway in looking for a job whilst getting a, albeit, poor pay package and unemployment benefits for the remaining 40%. It is all quite confusing, but RAV will be able to explain it better - Provided one gets a good case person, if the detailed explanations from others here haven't sufficed.
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  #47  
Old 13.06.2011, 20:50
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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Oh come off it. What employer is going to give you additional time off to look for work, when you are only working a 3 day week anyway. and you have accepted the role on the basis that you are going to look for other positions, and not stay put??!!
What kind of employer breaches contract law and tries to forcibly make an employee partially redundant while pretending it's a good thing?

I don't know why you are so against the OP standing up for herself and trying to get as much as possible for herself out of this unfortunate situation.
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  #48  
Old 13.06.2011, 21:14
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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What kind of employer breaches contract law and tries to forcibly make an employee partially redundant while pretending it's a good thing?

I don't know why you are so against the OP standing up for herself and trying to get as much as possible for herself out of this unfortunate situation.
Sometimes even managers forget that they are also employees, and that kharma can be a real bitch.
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  #49  
Old 13.06.2011, 21:28
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

Thank you for the support people My boss is definitely a special case,and I am not the first person who has had dodgy dealings with her.

In some if the posts above, people write that I don't have to mention the offered 60% contract because it is not written into the cancellation letter of my 100% contract. I guess I could just show the RAV the termination letter of my 100% contract...but if my employer or the HR have to fill out the forms, they might say they cancelled one contract but offered me another, albeit a lesser percentage.

If I go to the unemployment office, I will go to the one in Oerlikon. Has anyone been there? I can understand most German, but is it better to play dumb and pretend I don't get anything?
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  #50  
Old 13.06.2011, 21:34
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

I have only been to the Kreisburo at Oerlikon not the employment office but I made an effort to speak German there (I can get by with straoghtforward conversational German) and I do think it made a difference to the helpfulness of the staff. Generally I think it just shows willingness to integrate and respect for the Swiss. You could just indicate that you will try to communicate in German but are worried that you may not understand everything and would they be able to help you out in English if you struggle...
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  #51  
Old 13.06.2011, 21:36
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

Not sure you've understood how it works here....
-playing dumb will only lead to the RAV putting your file on hold until you've followed all of their instructions.
-and.... while it's on hold, they won't make any payments.
-if you play dumb by not telling them that you've been offered a 60% contract and then they find out from your employer, they may not be happy

The last thing you want is an unhappy RAV.

Don't saw the branch on which you are sitting.. just sayin'
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  #52  
Old 13.06.2011, 22:15
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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Swiss job contracts are negotiable. The rule book (OR) mentions notice periods, but only as a standard, when both parties agree to abide by the OR rules or by default, when no notice period is mentioned in the contract. In effect the notice period can be just one day.
That is not true, the law on notice periods are the minimium. A contract does not need to be detailed or even exist as Swiss employment law is very clear.
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  #53  
Old 13.06.2011, 22:18
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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I can understand most German, but is it better to play dumb and pretend I don't get anything?
If you want some money you need to cooperate & do what is required of you by law.
It's insurance, if your too dumb to claim you don't get a pay out, as you paid the premiums that would seem dumb!
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  #54  
Old 13.06.2011, 22:21
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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but if my employer or the HR have to fill out the forms, they might say they cancelled one contract but offered me another, albeit a lesser percentage.

?
They will indeed, it's not a game, your claiming on insurance, you have to give them the facts.
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Old 13.06.2011, 22:24
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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What kind of employer breaches contract law and tries to forcibly make an employee partially redundant while pretending it's a good thing?
Many people try to 'fiddle' a bit, nobody is forcing anybody to do anything. The employer is offering a 60% contract, thats better than nothing.
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  #56  
Old 13.06.2011, 23:10
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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Many people try to 'fiddle' a bit, nobody is forcing anybody to do anything. The employer is offering a 60% contract, thats better than nothing.
Breaking the law is not 'fiddling a bit' (as has already been pointed out many times here), and the OP is being forced to cut her hours/income. I was also referring to the OP's first post in which she said that her employer tried to 'make it out as if it was a great thing'. It's just rude and poor people management to not have the decency to acknowledge that it may not be ideal but unfortunately they have to do it.
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Old 13.06.2011, 23:17
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

Yes....and she did even say I was lucky because she could have taken it down to 50%, but that she made it 60% instead ( am I supposed to thank her?). I basically really what to just leave as i honestly feel like I am just a puppet she can do anything she wants with...cancel my contract, give me a crappier one, not give me the yearly salary bump. And what's not to say she mint cut my percentage again??? Perhaps down to 50%!
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Old 14.06.2011, 10:34
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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Yes....and she did even say I was lucky because she could have taken it down to 50%, but that she made it 60% instead ( am I supposed to thank her?). I basically really what to just leave as i honestly feel like I am just a puppet she can do anything she wants with...cancel my contract, give me a crappier one, not give me the yearly salary bump. And what's not to say she mint cut my percentage again??? Perhaps down to 50%!
Unfortunately were in a recession. Whilst Switzreland has high salaries the job protecton laws are rather poor. Personally I would have the extra money each month!
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Old 14.06.2011, 10:46
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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What kind of employer breaches contract law and tries to forcibly make an employee partially redundant while pretending it's a good thing?

I don't know why you are so against the OP standing up for herself and trying to get as much as possible for herself out of this unfortunate situation.
A Swiss employer obviously!
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Old 14.06.2011, 11:16
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Re: Contract termination and offered a much lower work %

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Not sure you've understood how it works here....
-playing dumb will only lead to the RAV putting your file on hold until you've followed all of their instructions.
-and.... while it's on hold, they won't make any payments.
-if you play dumb by not telling them that you've been offered a 60% contract and then they find out from your employer, they may not be happy

The last thing you want is an unhappy RAV.

Don't saw the branch on which you are sitting.. just sayin'
RAV will require your personnel dept to fill out forms and they have to be in order. You don't have to act dumb just agree with your employer/ personnel what they will write on this form and make sure that your termination letter mirrors this and get an interim reference to your liking at this point.

They have tried dodgy dealings already , so putting in writing that you are terminated/ redundent whatever with no mention of the 60% job will be no problem. I would point out to them they are not acting correctly with backdating etc and come to an agreement. I worked for 1 of the big 2 Swiss banks and they tried funny business as well , stand your ground! They are in the wrong all the way through and they know it , they have just got to realise you know it too!

If you take the 60% roll , you could be out on your ear in a short time who knows with this kind of bent company and then if you become unemployed then how much will RAV pay ?????? I have no idea 70% of the 60% wage as it will be the last wage you were earning , does anybody know? Now thats a thought !

Get everything in writing!
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