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  #21  
Old 21.06.2011, 13:29
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

I have car insurance. If someone hits my car (through no fault of my own, I may add), I claim.

The Swiss are world champions at taking out insurance -- and there's no stigma attached to claiming on insurance when you need to.
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Old 21.06.2011, 13:34
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

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I'm in the same boat at the moment (currently unemployed but will start working again in August.)

I was strongly advised by Swiss friends not to take RAV benefits for the two-month gap if Mr. MathNut and I could possibly get by without them. Hassle, social stigma (especially given that we are newcomers in a small town), and possible implications for naturalization were cited as reasons not to.

I'd be interested to know how well-founded any of that advice was (the last bit particularly*) but in the meantime, we've decided to err on the safe side and haven't applied for it. Tightened our belts a bit instead and so far it's all right.

If you've got kids there is only so much belt-tightening you can do, of course! Either way, just thought I'd pass along the advice that's been given to me.


* as I understand it, you're not meant to apply for citizenship WHILE you are on benefits, but having applied for them in the past isn't necessarily a problem. Like everything else though I'm sure it 'varies from canton to canton', and the rules in Zürich may not be the rules in Schönesdörfli GL...
small town social stigma might be a reason not to. that's if you care what others think. but as you have a job and it's a known 2 month gap, maybe it's not so bad just to tighten belts for a couple of months.
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  #23  
Old 21.06.2011, 13:44
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

Somehow the system is achieving the opposite of what it is supposed to achieve: help honest people who contributed to get the benefits of their rights. The mentality in the Romandie is different than in the swiss-german part: using RAV is not a drama. It can be seen in the bilingue canton of Fribourg where the german speaking parts makes a lower usage of RAV than the french speaking part.

@MathNut: How long before you apply for citizenship?

in Fribourg minor incidents older than 3-4 years are not considered when you apply for citizenship.
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  #24  
Old 21.06.2011, 15:06
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

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small town social stigma might be a reason not to. that's if you care what others think.
Planning on sticking around for the foreseeable future, so yeah, I kinda do care. Like I said we're in a small town, I wouldn't trust word not to get around. Don't mind being seen as "eccentric" but I draw the line at "eccentric dole-scrounger".

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@MathNut: How long before you apply for citizenship?

in Fribourg minor incidents older than 3-4 years are not considered when you apply for citizenship.
5-6 years. So no worries there then (or wouldn't be, if we were applying in FR). Still - will probably just tough our way through this one and save the RAV for in case we really need it.
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  #25  
Old 21.06.2011, 16:42
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

I do not really understand the problem of using your rights.
You work for a time, you pay taxes for "just in case" and when the "case" is here you do not use it?
Stigma? thats sound so cruel and stupid. Cannot everyone find himself in such position? I will never think of unemployment as a stigma! And really surprise me that some people does...so sad.
Using your right of unemployment benefit can be a problem to ask for citizenship in the future? This is ridicoulous and probably ilegal (but I can believe it from Switzerland).
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Old 21.06.2011, 16:50
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

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Stigma? thats sound so cruel and stupid. Cannot everyone find himself in such position? I will never think of unemployment as a stigma! And really surprise me that some people does...so sad.
I disagree. When the social insurances were set up, the idea was not to give you a right for anything, but to help people in need. You know, people who would not know how to feed the kids. Back then and especially in rural communities where people know each other, while you theoretically had a right to get it, only the people who actually NEEDED it would go to the city hall and pick up their money in cash. That's why the system worked so well then.
But today and especially in a city do those social systems not work this way anymore - everyone will take what the law entitles him to. So in the end more people want a piece of the same cake with the result that the pieces get smaller - including the one for the people who actually need it.
I happily admit that I could have well lived without my one month RAV payment. I took it because that's by now the standard behaviour. I would have equally not taken it if it was socially not accepted.
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Old 21.06.2011, 17:39
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

Yes, I understand your point. (But still I will not call it an stigma)

Anyway, everyone, whatever is your level of life will face some financial stress in the case of unemployment. If I lose my job, even if I have some saving and I could survive some months, I do not know what can happen to me in the future and that is why I have savings...I will always take that money. I thing it is a RIGHT.

That way you describe would be an ideal world. Unfortunally we life in a world where everyone will take as much as he/her can.

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I disagree. When the social insurances were set up, the idea was not to give you a right for anything, but to help people in need. You know, people who would not know how to feed the kids. Back then and especially in rural communities where people know each other, while you theoretically had a right to get it, only the people who actually NEEDED it would go to the city hall and pick up their money in cash. That's why the system worked so well then.
But today and especially in a city do those social systems not work this way anymore - everyone will take what the law entitles him to. So in the end more people want a piece of the same cake with the result that the pieces get smaller - including the one for the people who actually need it.
I happily admit that I could have well lived without my one month RAV payment. I took it because that's by now the standard behaviour. I would have equally not taken it if it was socially not accepted.
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  #28  
Old 21.06.2011, 17:46
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

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Yes, I understand your point. (But still I will not call it an stigma)

Anyway, everyone, whatever is your level of life will face some financial stress in the case of unemployment. If I lose my job, even if I have some saving and I could survive some months, I do not know what can happen to me in the future and that is why I have savings...I will always take that money. I thing it is a RIGHT.

That way you describe would be an ideal world. Unfortunally we life in a world where everyone will take as much as he/her can.
yes, but maybe 70% of 2 months salary is worth not being whispered about as RAV-scrounging foreigners...
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  #29  
Old 21.06.2011, 18:44
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

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yes, but maybe 70% of 2 months salary is worth not being whispered about as RAV-scrounging foreigners...
Who will know unless you tell them!
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  #30  
Old 21.06.2011, 18:46
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

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Who will know unless you tell them!
I bet you have never lived in a village, have you?
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Old 21.06.2011, 18:51
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

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- wife earns more than 120kchf
Did some people miss that her salary was over 120K? Therefore her waiting period will be at least 15 days, and 20 if she exceeded 125K

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Your wife will have to attend a three-hour session where the RAV people will explain her rights and responsibilities as a job-seeker, and she will be obliged to provide evidence that she has been actively looking for work ever since the day when she received her notice. In practice, they will expect to see evidence of between 8 and 12 job applications per month.

It's a real pain and a degrading experience, I wouldn't do it for one month unless you badly need the money.
Hardly likely on the basis she has a written offer for a start 1 November. And what exactly is degrading about claiming what you are entitled to?


But I really wonder if it is worth the effort for between roughly 1-6 days unemployment benefit, less deductions, and the hassle involved getting the paperwork together.
It also depends when she was given notice. If that was a while ago, they take that into consideration, as you are supposed to register as soon as you know you will be unemployed.

Good luck with the new job
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  #32  
Old 21.06.2011, 19:02
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

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I bet you have never lived in a village, have you?
As far as I can see, the one and only RAV office in Glarus is in the heart of the metropolis at Rathausplatz. Shouldn't affect village life too much, unless the Glarusian spies are everywhere ...
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  #33  
Old 21.06.2011, 19:03
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

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Did some people miss that her salary was over 120K? Therefore her waiting period will be at least 15 days, and 20 if she exceeded 125K
And did you miss that the Vertiginous couple has children, so the waiting period is but 5 days?
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  #34  
Old 21.06.2011, 19:09
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

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As far as I can see, the one and only RAV office in Glarus is in the heart of the metropolis at Rathausplatz. Shouldn't affect village life too much, unless the Glarusian spies are everywhere ...
I bet you have never lived in a village either... If you are with the RAV, you will receive letters. Letters from the RAV, letters from the Kasse that pays... people will know. And talk about it.
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Old 21.06.2011, 19:11
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

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I bet you have never lived in a village either...
(smothers loud guffaw) I live in Basel, my friend ...
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Old 21.06.2011, 20:53
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

We all know that in small towns you can not be homosexual, atheist, open about sex-girl, black or unemployed...
F"*** O** everyone that thinks anything bad of you!!
If we care about what the others think we are in the wrong way...
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Old 21.06.2011, 21:24
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

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If we care about what the others think we are in the wrong way...
No, then we are social animals. Its natural that we do.

I actually found typically the most "alternative" people the most intolerant. I could not care less about your gender, skincolor, sexual orientation, diet,... but the only ones who gave me some lecture on "Why you should be vegan like me" or "Why do you wear a shirt that's not made out of organic material" were not exactly conservatives. Sadly enough. But this is going totally off topic.
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Old 21.06.2011, 21:32
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

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I bet you have never lived in a village, have you?
I have not,sounds like a good reason not to intigrate too much!
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  #39  
Old 21.06.2011, 21:32
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

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We all know that in small towns you can not be homosexual, atheist, open about sex-girl, black or unemployed...
F"*** O** everyone that thinks anything bad of you!!
If we care about what the others think we are in the wrong way...
Hang on a minute. My potential 2 months RAV payment is not part of who I am. It's not a circumstance beyond my control. It's not even a lifestyle choice. It's a one-time decision. The money's there, I would be entitled to it, I can take it or I can not take it. If I know that taking it (when I don't obviously need it, when I've only just moved to this town and not paid into their Kasse for it) is likely to get up people's noses for whatever reason, just or unjust - then it's my choice whether or not X amount of money (and in my case X would be a fairly small number, by finance-and-IT standards anyway) is worth getting up people's noses for.

For me, at this time, it isn't worth it. Not saying it never would be, or that I'd starve in the street sooner than... I'm just saying, for me, right now, it isn't worth the bad feeling I suspect it would raise among (some of) my new neighbors.

Anyway, caring (at least a little bit) what people around you think, adjusting your behavior to meet their expectations, makes the world go round - especially in small communities. I'm not complaining, I love it here. The baker remembered my name after my first visit, the neighbor next door re-introduced herself "per Du" on our second meeting. People are friendlier, social bonds are tighter. But that cuts both ways.
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Old 21.06.2011, 21:50
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Re: RAV bridging between jobs

I fully understand MN's choice. In my case not asking RAV is an irrational decision nurtured by kind of personal pride. After checking with my wife if she should apply or not we found out that October is among the worst month with a heap of bills coming (tax, insurance, mortgage etc....) after summer vacation & school start which will bleed us white. So application will be filed soon.
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