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  #21  
Old 06.07.2011, 15:25
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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Thanks to those who replied. It is my understanding that I have no foot to stand on without having to give this monies back?? In the UK where I'm from, employees are entitled to redundancy payments after working for the company after a certain period - this does not seem to be the case in Switzerland?? In addition, in the UK, to dismiss employees the employer would have to go through a process of giving warnings to their employees. I did nothing wrong here. They can't just try and get rid of people without real reason can they??

The annoying thing is, the department effectively tried to get rid of me and had I found another job in another company, I wouldn't need to even consider giving this money back. I still think it is a bit unfair especially what the other department did to me and in a way, I still feel I should be compensated for this. So ideally I would prefer not to give this monies back but don't want to be sued for not doing so. Or else be sued for some other reason e.g not telling them I had this money even though they paid me...if you understand what I mean?

but you didn't leave, even in the uk you are given your notice of redundancy, but if you move to another job in the same company then you have not been made redundant and so are not entitled to any money.

just because one department treated you badly doesn't mean your entitled to anything, and you know it, that department gave you notice, you moved department, no break in your contract, no different then a normal internal job move = no payment due to you, simple.
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  #22  
Old 06.07.2011, 15:30
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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I did nothing wrong here. They can't just try and get rid of people without real reason can they??
Sure they can, if they just decide they don't like you they can give you the required notice & end the contract.
It's actually totally fair as you can leave by same rules! I can think of a no of companies that have been damaged by staff leaving, especially the whole dept!
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  #23  
Old 06.07.2011, 15:42
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

Wow...the employment laws in Switzerland are really not that favourable to employees even if the employees has worked for the company for some time!
Ok thanks for your answers. I also have a brief question on the notice period that they give. Are you required to work during the notice period?? Thanks
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  #24  
Old 06.07.2011, 15:48
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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Wow...the employment laws in Switzerland are really not that favourable to employees even if the employees has worked for the company for some time!
Ok thanks for your answers. I also have a brief question on the notice period that they give. Are you required to work during the notice period?? Thanks
Yes you have to work the notice period.
In CH salaries are high, but it's 'all in' payment.
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  #25  
Old 06.07.2011, 15:48
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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Wow...the employment laws in Switzerland are really not that favourable to employees even if the employees has worked for the company for some time!
Ok thanks for your answers. I also have a brief question on the notice period that they give. Are you required to work during the notice period?? Thanks

of course you are, banks sometimes send you on garden leave if you have access to live systems or clients, but otherwise yes, same as everywhere else.

seriously, was this your first job or something??

eta on garden leave you are not allowed to work for other companies either, otherwise payments will also stop
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  #26  
Old 06.07.2011, 15:55
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

They wouldn't pay you anything if you were not eligible for it
So get a professional advice, have it on hand when you talk to the HR next time and you'll see how it works
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  #27  
Old 06.07.2011, 15:56
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

Sorry if I sound naive. Yes, this was my first job and I was unfairly dismissed. I accepted a new role in the other department as I was desperate not to have gaps in my CV but in hindsight, I should have paid more attention looking for a job in another company had I known I would be asked to pay this back! To me, the other dept did not treat me right and they should compensate me for this.

Anyway, I want to ask a lawyer on this. Will my company be able to argue a basis to sue me as I did not actively return the monies to them?? I think they also made a mistake if I was not supposed to get this money.
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  #28  
Old 06.07.2011, 15:58
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

P.s Does anyone know any good lawyers out there who can help me on this? Thanks
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  #29  
Old 06.07.2011, 15:59
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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They wouldn't pay you anything if you were not eligible for it
So get a professional advice, have it on hand when you talk to the HR next time and you'll see how it works
As the OP could have his contract terminated & only get given only an OK reference, seems silly to fight just for the sake of it? Probably rather more at stake here.
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  #30  
Old 06.07.2011, 16:09
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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Sorry if I sound naive. Yes, this was my first job and I was unfairly dismissed. I accepted a new role in the other department as I was desperate not to have gaps in my CV but in hindsight, I should have paid more attention looking for a job in another company had I known I would be asked to pay this back! To me, the other dept did not treat me right and they should compensate me for this.

Anyway, I want to ask a lawyer on this. Will my company be able to argue a basis to sue me as I did not actively return the monies to them?? I think they also made a mistake if I was not supposed to get this money.

ok, firstly you where not unfairly dismissed, so get that out of your head right now, you still work for the company, so you where never dismissed.

it doesn't matter what you think, right or wrong, hr made a mistake (probably) and still paid you. of course they can ask for it back, how far you want to take it is upto you, but banks have lawyers on the payroll sitting around doing nothing, you don't, and they cost, a lot, for a case imho you would lose and then be faced with the banks legal costs as well as your own.

if you want to stay with the bank then arrange a payment plan with them, talk to your boss, speak to employee care etc I doubt your the first person this has happened too.
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  #31  
Old 06.07.2011, 16:09
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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P.s Does anyone know any good lawyers out there who can help me on this? Thanks

Whoa there....seriously, I think you should take some time out to consider this before you get all hot under the collar and shouting for a lawyer. Don't forget that lawyers don't work for free and you might end up just throwing good money after bad.
Slow down, listen to what people are telling you here, get yourself properly informed too and then you might consider consulting a lawyer to discuss your options. Before you do that, ask the lawyer in advance if he can give you a flat rate price for a discussion - you don't want to get into paying a lawyer a retainer with no definite positive outcome in sight.

This is your first job - how do you then judge whether you were treated unfairly? Admittedly, none of us here know the exact circumstances, we only have your description to go on. Don't lose sight of the fact that you are in Switzerland now, things are done differently to how it works in the UK. Emplyoment law is different, companies can and do hire and fire as they wish and there is not a whole lot you can do about it. You tell us that the company offered and indeed paid you some kind of redundancy deal - as has already been pointed out though you didn't actually leave the company so in fact you were most likely not entitled to that payment. Don't start complaining about one department acting differently to another department - welcome to the real corporate world, many corporations are like this with often the right hand not knowing what the left was doing.

Gaps in CV's are not so terrible and there are one hundred and one reasons why you might have one. I assume that you don't have the redundancy money to hand anymore which makes paying it back somewhat tricky - if this is the major motive behind your disgruntlement then you can I'm sure negotiate repayment terms with the employer if it turns out that you have to repay it.

My predictions in this case: the company are within their rights (tough as it may seem), they will require you to repay the money or may -if you are lucky agree to call it quits.

I'm sorry if this sounds tough but it's reality, I worked for a number of larger corporations for around 25 years and I've had my fair share of being jerked around by some re-structuring / re-organisation / alignment of contract terms etc etc, most of which are bullshit corporate speak for "we think we can do it this way and save money".

Good luck and don't forget to tell us here how you get along.
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  #32  
Old 06.07.2011, 16:27
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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P.s Does anyone know any good lawyers out there who can help me on this? Thanks
As you said it was your first job I take it that you are relatively young and not so experienced in employment laws.

Short summary:
- there is no such thing as a legal right for any payment besides your salary for the legal notice period.
- you obviously have to work during a notice period.
- any outplacement program that involves payments as yours came surely with a huge stack of paperwork: You must have signed a contract to get this money. The contract will have all details in it. Did you read it?

Unlike the others here do I believe that you very well might have a case, but I would agree not to run to a lawyer without simply reading and looking at the details of what you agreed back then.

I was once made redundant and signed a contract for it. This contract replaced my work contract - so I had the "choice" to take the outplacement or only get the legal minimum. The new contract had loads of details in it and I am pretty sure that I could have kept the money if I had found a new role within the same company: The new role would mean another, third, work contract and is absolutely not connected to the second one which included the payment.

If you however actually not serve your notice period and switched within one contract from one role to a new one, it looks pretty bad for you.

In short: I cannot understand why people sign work contracts they don't read.
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  #33  
Old 06.07.2011, 16:31
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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In short: I cannot understand why people sign work contracts they don't read.
because they wave a bit fat pile of money in front of your face, people I saw leave the bank got around 1 years salary even if they had only been there a couple of years, thats a big incentive to sign whatever they stick in front of you
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  #34  
Old 06.07.2011, 16:36
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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because they wave a bit fat pile of money in front of your face, people I saw leave the bank got around 1 years salary even if they had only been there a couple of years, thats a big incentive to sign whatever they stick in front of you
Sure. That's not the point. The point is to then accept another role in the same bank without KNOWING if you can keep said pile of money. Maybe I am too direct at times, but I'd surely ask that... and if the answer was no i'd be sitting at a beach and then take the job one year later.
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  #35  
Old 06.07.2011, 16:37
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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Sure. That's not the point. The point is to then accept another role in the same bank without KNOWING if you can keep said pile of money. Maybe I am too direct at times, but I'd surely ask that... and if the answer was no i'd be sitting at a beach and then take the job one year later.

if you don't want to hear the answer then don't ask the question, isn't that a golden rule in banking anyway lol
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  #36  
Old 06.07.2011, 16:42
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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if you don't want to hear the answer then don't ask the question, isn't that a golden rule in banking anyway lol
I always get this one wrong... was it "don't ask, don't tell" or "Hakuna Matata"...

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Old 06.07.2011, 16:49
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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As you said it was your first job I take it that you are relatively young and not so experienced in employment laws.

Short summary:
- there is no such thing as a legal right for any payment besides your salary for the legal notice period.
- you obviously have to work during a notice period.
- any outplacement program that involves payments as yours came surely with a huge stack of paperwork: You must have signed a contract to get this money. The contract will have all details in it. Did you read it?

Unlike the others here do I believe that you very well might have a case, but I would agree not to run to a lawyer without simply reading and looking at the details of what you agreed back then.

I was once made redundant and signed a contract for it. This contract replaced my work contract - so I had the "choice" to take the outplacement or only get the legal minimum. The new contract had loads of details in it and I am pretty sure that I could have kept the money if I had found a new role within the same company: The new role would mean another, third, work contract and is absolutely not connected to the second one which included the payment.

If you however actually not serve your notice period and switched within one contract from one role to a new one, it looks pretty bad for you.

In short: I cannot understand why people sign work contracts they don't read.
i suppose he no longer has a copy of the contract and didnt really read its contents in the first instance which is probably why he continues to ignore all the comments asking him to review the contract terms which will surely stipulate the conditions to which he is entitled to the money.
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  #38  
Old 06.07.2011, 16:54
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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i suppose he no longer has a copy of the contract and didnt really read its contents in the first instance which is probably why he continues to ignore all the comments asking him to review the contract terms which will surely stipulate the conditions to which he is entitled to the money.
Well, in that case there is only one important piece of advice to make: Don't ever mention to your HR that you lost it!

Otherwise they will make up whatever they need. Tell them to show you in their copy of the contract which clause is relevant if they want the money back...

P.S: Without the documents no lawyer in the world can give any advice on the case.
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  #39  
Old 06.07.2011, 17:17
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

There are 2 points which come into mind.

Firstly This has been about the company potentially sueing the person. I'm not sure if this is allowed but the question I ask is why would the company need to sue the person when he his still giving him his wages? Theoretically the company could just deduct the amount from the wages, no? Then it would be up to the employee to sue them.

My second point is that Switzerland is small. Everyone knows everyone. Before escalating the situation against a company who will have checked their actions are correct with the highly paid legal department, you should be aware of this. It is likely that should you apply for other banks, they will have contacts within your current bank and they do communicate with each other.

I've got quite a few examples of this but I've got 2 which are particularly relevant. The first is that my boss turned down a job with a big company due to the work not being very interesting. As he went to a job interview with another company, the interviewer started by saying 'so this is the guy who turned down company x'

My second example is within the banking sector. A friend went to a job interview with another bank. It turned out the interviewer is best friends with his then current boss.......

So before escalating a situation you will most likely lose, I'd be wary of the reputation you will gain.
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Old 06.07.2011, 17:22
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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because they wave a bit fat pile of money in front of your face, people I saw leave the bank got around 1 years salary even if they had only been there a couple of years, thats a big incentive to sign whatever they stick in front of you
That's not fair! Despite what you may think, not everyone is at the top of the food chain and earn the big bucks that everyone is referring to.

For the settlement I got 4.5 months pay which is slightly more than my notice period...and now it seems like I have to pay this back!

When you go through this process you are bombarded with a whole wealth of information. I may have slipped up not reading this but really, they've put you in the program - you have no other choice but to accept whatever crap they throw at you!

If you must know, the manager hired another person to do my job and I had no other choice but to put into this program on the false illusion that this had something to do with a reorganisation. He was in his position as a new boss and wanted some of his buddies in the role - so there you have it - I don't think it is fair what they did to me! I am annoyed as it could easily have ruined my career even though I did nothing wrong!
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