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  #41  
Old 06.07.2011, 17:26
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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That's not fair! Despite what you may think, not everyone is at the top of the food chain and earn the big bucks that everyone is referring to.

For the settlement I got 4.5 months pay which is slightly more than my notice period...and now it seems like I have to pay this back!

When you go through this process you are bombarded with a whole wealth of information. I may have slipped up not reading this but really, they've put you in the program - you have no other choice but to accept whatever crap they throw at you!

If you must know, the manager hired another person to do my job and I had no other choice but to put into this program on the false illusion that this had something to do with a reorganisation. He was in his position as a new boss and wanted some of his buddies in the role - so there you have it - I don't think it is fair what they did to me! I am annoyed as it could easily have ruined my career even though I did nothing wrong!
how long had you worked there? how old are you?

it sucks what happened to you, but lets face it, you knew you couldn't keep the money, you gambled and lost, you think 'they' owe you something, 'they' don't, move on
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  #42  
Old 06.07.2011, 17:27
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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Yes you have to work the notice period.
In CH salaries are high, but it's 'all in' payment.
In theory yes, in practice often no. I have been made redundant from two different companies in Switzerland (one software, one pharma) and was not required to go to the office during my notice period in either case - and in the case of the software company, it was a four-month period.
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  #43  
Old 06.07.2011, 17:49
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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That's not fair! Despite what you may think, not everyone is at the top of the food chain and earn the big bucks that everyone is referring to.

For the settlement I got 4.5 months pay which is slightly more than my notice period...and now it seems like I have to pay this back!
Life isn't fair - get used to it.

As for the settlement - you need to state, in simple terms, the chain of events, because at the moment what you are saying simply doesn't make sense.

1) At time zero (T0) you were told that your services were no longer required within Team X

2) You were then placed "on the beach" in order to find a new role for period T0 to T3

3) Between T0 and T3, (say T2) you found a new role within the company - and at this point you started working for them.

Questions:
1) The settlement - at what point was it paid to you?
2) Was the settlement paid in addition to your salary between T0 and T3?
3) What were the terms of the settlement? In particular with regards to finding an internal placement between T0 and T3?

Assumption
At T0 you were paid the settlement - and from there until T3 you were on the beach. At T2 you found another job internally and continued working. The terms of your original contract were - we will continue to pay you while on the beach - and additionally pay you 4.5 months if you are unable to find an internal position.

I'll also assume that there was a process failure - and that the 4.5months was paid at T3 - (when you should have left) - and that no-one in your new department informed HR to cancel that payment - or HR failed to spot it. An audit picked up on this payment and have decided that you should repay the amount.

What to do next?
Firstly, confirm to the nice people on EF the chain of events, and terms of the original termination and settlement

Secondly, establish from HR what exactly they would like returned.

Thirdly, once you are in full possession of the FACTS (and not your own personal opinion on how you were treated - we all get treated badly from time to time) you need to figure out how to tackle the fact you spunked 4.5 months wages - when you should have known you would have to pay it back.

Suggestion
Offer them 50 cents on the CHF for the net salary you received - to be repaid monthly over the next 24 months. If you terminate before then the remainder should be paid immediately - if they terminate the remainder is written off.
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  #44  
Old 06.07.2011, 17:54
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

Anyway, I would like to add a last word and that is thanks to all those who have replied! I know your answers may not be exactly what I wanted to hear and I still personally think coming from the UK where this is different, Swiss employment law is rather unfavourable for employees but now I am aware how far the boundaries of the fences lie and how much room I can manoeuver on (if any). I appreciate your answers so thanks.
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  #45  
Old 07.07.2011, 03:43
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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Anyway, I would like to add a last word and that is thanks to all those who have replied! I know your answers may not be exactly what I wanted to hear and I still personally think coming from the UK where this is different, Swiss employment law is rather unfavourable for employees but now I am aware how far the boundaries of the fences lie and how much room I can manoeuver on (if any). I appreciate your answers so thanks.
To be honest, I don't think even in the UK (or most anywhere else) would you get to keep this money. You care still working! and working for the same company therefore you were actually never let. Your employment was in fact never terminated. You had continuous employment the whole time which means you can't have the money.

But good luck anyway. Perhaps you are persuasive enough to get them to forget about it.
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  #46  
Old 08.07.2011, 22:33
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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Yeah but can they sue me because of it? Is there a basis to argue that this monies should have been paid to me rightly for unfair dismissal by the other department?
I understand this money was given to you as a termination pay with the scope to financially support you until you find a new job. Since you have found a new job immediately - even in the same company - the need ceased to exist.

They could sue you for "unjustified enrichment" in my opinion.
http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/220/a62.html
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  #47  
Old 08.07.2011, 23:09
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

I am a lawyer and will help you for free if you PM me your termination contract.

It would appear to be a relatively straight-forward legal question.
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  #48  
Old 09.07.2011, 01:03
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

Yup, that happened to me once. Switzerland is very small.

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I've got quite a few examples of this but I've got 2 which are particularly relevant. The first is that my boss turned down a job with a big company due to the work not being very interesting. As he went to a job interview with another company, the interviewer started by saying 'so this is the guy who turned down company x'.
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  #49  
Old 09.07.2011, 01:28
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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I am a lawyer and will help you for free
OMG, it has to be.

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  #50  
Old 09.07.2011, 05:49
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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To be honest, I don't think even in the UK (or most anywhere else) would you get to keep this money.

The money your received was compensation for losing your job. But you never did lose your job and have been continuously employed the whole time by the same company.

Good luck anyway. Perhaps you are persuasive enough to get them to forget about it.
OMG! That is some seriously terrible writing!! That's what I get for watching TV & replying to EF at the same time. I've edited my post to hopefully make some sort of sense.
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  #51  
Old 09.07.2011, 12:35
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

I think we've been mishimishi'ed again.
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  #52  
Old 09.07.2011, 19:04
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

As people have said - it is difficult to give advice without seeing the agreement.
My question is "were you working for the new department on the day they paid you the lump sum"
If yes then you probably do not have a good argument against giving it back.

If no then you probably have a good argument to keep it.
But it all depends on seeing the agreement.
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  #53  
Old 09.07.2011, 19:05
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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I think we've been mishimishi'ed again.
What is "mishimishi'ed"?
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  #54  
Old 09.07.2011, 19:21
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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What is "mishimishi'ed"?
mishimishi : EF member and 0/2 for Employee of the Month.

Discrimination by UBS

Fired while on probationary period
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  #55  
Old 10.07.2011, 17:44
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

They paid you money

They didn't come back until 1.5 year later to ask i back

= reasonable person would be expectd to assume the money is his/hers

So for them to now claim it back, you have to ask them for the paperwork with your signature stating that you must pay it back. It doesn'exist. Then ask HR for the policy where it says you should pay it back (HR hates that). You'll never hear from them again.
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  #56  
Old 10.07.2011, 17:53
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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They paid you money

They didn't come back until 1.5 year later to ask i back

= reasonable person would be expectd to assume the money is his/hers

So for them to now claim it back, you have to ask them for the paperwork with your signature stating that you must pay it back. It doesn'exist. Then ask HR for the policy where it says you should pay it back (HR hates that). You'll never hear from them again.
In banking people get bonus's, the risk is it could cost the OP way more later on.
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  #57  
Old 10.07.2011, 18:00
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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Yeah but can they sue me because of it? Is there a basis to argue that this monies should have been paid to me rightly for unfair dismissal by the other department?
Well first of all you can not be "dismissed" by a department, it is the company that terminates your contract, so did you receive a letter of termination from the company or not? If not, then you were never dismissed, that is the legal situation.

Jim.
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  #58  
Old 11.07.2011, 16:19
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Re: Paid redundany, accepted job in same company

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They paid you money

They didn't come back until 1.5 year later to ask i back

= reasonable person would be expectd to assume the money is his/hers

So for them to now claim it back, you have to ask them for the paperwork with your signature stating that you must pay it back. It doesn'exist. Then ask HR for the policy where it says you should pay it back (HR hates that). You'll never hear from them again.

LOL just try using that defense in court, well I knew it was redundancy money and I wasn't made redundant, but I felt like I deserved it, so I kept it, m'lord.

So op, what happened?
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