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Old 24.08.2011, 22:56
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Bonus after leaving job

Hi all

Is there anyone in here knowing any good lawyers or do know the rules when you are leaving the job and your bonus agreed is not paid out as expected?

I'm leaving my job here end of this month and have just been informed that I'm not going to get my full bonus since they are looking at ALL the targets for the FULL year (the company fiscal year is going from 1.4 to 31.3) which means I have only been employed for 5 out of the 12 months, and lots of my goals are first due end the fiscal year so can't be according to the law they can put this into the goals now?? This means for me that I'm going to get a VERY LOW amount out since I "only" finished the goals which should be due NOW, and not the one who have to be finish by end fiscal year.

If I'm going to appoint a lawyer does anyone knows what's going to happen if I win the case, will my former employee then have to pay the cost for the law case or will this be on my expense?

I hope someone can share experiences - private message will as well be highly appreciated since some of the people I worked together with might be on this forum as well.

Thanks in advance

P.s. The reason why they don't pay out the bonus is a "pay back" that I didn't take another job offer within the group but instead decided to leave.
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Old 24.08.2011, 23:00
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

I think it depends on contract and bonus policy.

In my previous company (In Portugal) the contract does not refer bonus.

But there was a bonus policy in Company and it said that you are entitled to bonus only if you remain until pay date.

When i had the offer in Switzerland and i delivered the resignation letter i lost the bonus entitllement.

I was there when it was paid (notice period) but the resignation letter was already delivered.
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Old 24.08.2011, 23:05
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

It's very clear in the contract that I shall have the bonus payment when I leave:

If a specific employment contract stipulates a variable portion of annual remuneration (bonus), the employee in question shall be entitled to claim a share of this bonus pro rata temporis if the employment relationship is ended as a result of termination, dismissal, retirement, inability to work or death, provided that the targets for the year in question have been met in accordance with the annually agreed targets
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Old 24.08.2011, 23:21
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It's very clear in the contract that I shall have the bonus payment when I leave:

If a specific employment contract stipulates a variable portion of annual remuneration (bonus), the employee in question shall be entitled to claim a share of this bonus pro rata temporis if the employment relationship is ended as a result of termination, dismissal, retirement, inability to work or death, provided that the targets for the year in question have been met in accordance with the annually agreed targets
This quote sounds like you are entitled to a bonus for only the months you have worked and only if you are forced to leave (ie not if you resign). But I'm not a lawyer.
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Old 24.08.2011, 23:26
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

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This quote sounds like you are entitled to a bonus for only the months you have worked and only if you are forced to leave (ie not if you resign). But I'm not a lawyer.
It says in the end that if the targts is met - they are for 2 out of the 5 goals since the rest of them are due late this year.
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Old 25.08.2011, 00:09
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It says in the end that if the targts is met - they are for 2 out of the 5 goals since the rest of them are due late this year.
I'm not sure I understand your point. My non-expert understanding of what you have quoted is that if you are forced to leave you can claim a portion of your bonus only for the months you have worked and only if you met your goals. But you're saying that you haven't met your goals (because you didn't have enough time) and you have chosen to leave, not forced. So I would have thought they don't have to pay you any bonus and if it were me I would take anything offered and run! But as I said, am not an expert.
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Old 25.08.2011, 00:36
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

First, count yourself lucky that you're getting anything. At my last company, you could have worked 11+ months and quit and got no bonus. Esp after only working for them for 5 months....:rolleyes

Second, unless your HR people are complete HR morons instead of just your garden variety HR morons (note I do not classify HR morons with regular morons so as not to offend the latter) a statement of how your bonus should be calculated should have been given to you. You should ask HR for this.

That said, the bonus structures I've seen are calculated based on a combination of corporporate and personal goals. Corporate goals tend to be things like 'amount of sales' or 'profitability' etc. Let's assume that you needed to get X amount of sales. You've only achieved say 5/12 of that so it's no surprise you only get 5/12 of that bonus. The same with corporate goals. If they were nice, they'd give you something based on the corporate performance up to that point but if they're not they may say 'Hey, we don't know how profitable we'll be by the end of the fiscal year so you can forget that part of the calculation'.

Before calling in the lawyers and being a pissy git (after all, you've only worked there five months, right?), sit down with HR and have them explain it to you.
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Old 25.08.2011, 01:37
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

Hi Guys

I have been working for the company for 1 year, so this is the 2 year of bonus so is not completely new to the structure and what they offer. First year my bonus was 20% higher than normal since I overperform, and have done this as well so far this year. Reason not for paying me the bonus out is that I said no to a job offer and decided to leave instead.

The previously person leaving the Department have all been offered the bonus pro rata which also is stated in the quote I made. Just saying that if you met your goals by leaving, but it's IMPOSSIBLE having all quotes made when you are leaving after 5 of the 12 months especially since some of the tasks haven't started yet (and was not planned to start as well before late this year). so My point is that it can't be fair that they take those points into consideration , and deduct me for this is not finish, since they not even are started.
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Old 25.08.2011, 07:47
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

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Hi Guys
so My point is that it can't be fair that they take those points into consideration , and deduct me for this is not finish, since they not even are started.
Why? Imagine I'm a carpenter. You're paying me to fix your kitchen and bathroom. You're going to pay me a bonus if I do a good job. I finish the bathroom but then decide to quit the job and pursue my dream career as a zeppelin pilot. So you pay me for doing the bathroom and maybe, in a fit of magnaminity, give me a bonus for it. However, rightfully, you don't pay me for not doing your kitchen. Do you pay me a bonus for the great job I did not doing your kitchen, too?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something here. It sounds like you're getting a pro-rata bonus based on time served and whatever accomplishments you've done. Also, is your bonus so large that that a lawyer's fees would be an insubstantial amount of the total?
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Old 25.08.2011, 07:55
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

Rule number 1: Never expect a bonus even when stipulated in your contract.

Rule number 2: See bonuses as a nice added extra if you get them. Never rely on them to pay for something.

Rule number 3: Always remember that your company can always find a reason if they want to not pay out bonuses.

p.s. I speak from experience
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Old 25.08.2011, 08:32
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

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It's very clear in the contract that I shall have the bonus payment when I leave:

If a specific employment contract stipulates a variable portion of annual remuneration (bonus), the employee in question shall be entitled to claim a share of this bonus pro rata temporis if the employment relationship is ended as a result of termination, dismissal, retirement, inability to work or death, provided that the targets for the year in question have been met in accordance with the annually agreed targets
The wording is very clear and very tight, I'm afraid. There are two separate points.

1. You will be entitled to a bonus only if you meet your targets for the year.

2. That bonus will be paid on a pro rata basis.


The first part means that if you sat around doing nothing for 11 months and were fired (interesting that dismissal is covered!) you will not get anything as you didn't meet your targets. It is only if you get past the first bit, that you are entitled to the pro-rata payment.

So you met your targets, you get the pro-rata payment.

It is watertight wording. Don't waste your money on a lawyer. Sorry
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Old 25.08.2011, 10:32
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

It's all one way traffic for you, huh?
You work for a company for one year, then decide to leave and feel you're entitled to stipulate how you will take your remaining holidays AND that you're entitled to a full bonus although you've not met your targets.

Wow.
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Old 25.08.2011, 11:30
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

Don't forget that a lot of banks here want to employ certain individuals but can't technically get them into the pay bracket that they feel is appropriate from the get go, so they make up the base salary with bonuses. It's common practise for expats, lesser so with locals according to some HR folk I know.
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Old 25.08.2011, 12:00
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

So in effect you a voluntarily not achieving you goals because you are leaving early. Therefore why do you feel that the company owes you money for something you haven't done
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Old 25.08.2011, 12:06
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

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So in effect you a voluntarily not achieving you goals because you are leaving early. Therefore why do you feel that the company owes you money for something you haven't done
This is the theme of the day. There's another moan thread about a wife who doesn't like her husband away at the office and cites...FRANCE....as good working practise.
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Old 25.08.2011, 12:09
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

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This is the theme of the day. There's another moan thread about a wife who doesn't like her husband away at the office and cites...FRANCE....as good working practise.
Yikes....
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Old 25.08.2011, 12:14
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

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Old 25.08.2011, 12:44
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

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It's all one way traffic for you, huh?
You work for a company for one year, then decide to leave and feel you're entitled to stipulate how you will take your remaining holidays AND that you're entitled to a full bonus although you've not met your targets.

Wow.
NOT AT ALL , but don't you feel that if you do a good job then you shall get paid what's agreed and fair? I do think all of us do.

To this post I think some of you missunderstand the point here, so let me try put some fictive amounts on:

Yearly bonus should be 12000, since I have been working 5 months of the new bonus year 5000 should be the bonus if you archive the result zou were expected to do, which then is fine and I'll be very happy. The issue here is that I'm getting LESS than this amount since they are calculating some bonus goals into this which first is due late this year (means out of my control), that's the problem, hope it's more clear now?
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Old 25.08.2011, 12:52
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

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Yearly bonus should be 12000, since I have been working 5 months of the new bonus year 5000 should be the bonus if you archive the result zou were expected to do, which then is fine and I'll be very happy. The issue here is that I'm getting LESS than this amount since they are calculating some bonus goals into this which first is due late this year (means out of my control), that's the problem, hope it's more clear now?
Yes, you are clear now.

Are you clear on the overwhelming position that there is nothing you can do about it? You didn't achieve your goals for the year (your contract states "annually agreed targets"). If your contract said "met goals for that portion of the year for which the person was employed", you'd have a case. But it doesn't.


Regarding "is it fair?", "I'm unhappy", "I expected" etc etc, we can discuss that if you wish, (some people already did), but if your question is "Can I do anything about it?" the answer, IMHO, is a clear and unequivocal "No"
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Old 25.08.2011, 12:55
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Re: Bonus after leaving job

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So in effect you a voluntarily not achieving you goals because you are leaving early. Therefore why do you feel that the company owes you money for something you haven't done
No Not at all :-) See my last post. I just believe things needs to be fair.
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