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  #81  
Old 27.08.2011, 00:19
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

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I think because of the strong CHF which may not weaken for the forseeable future, there is a chance there will be job cuts in Swiss companies
And I know it is already happening.....
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  #82  
Old 28.08.2011, 19:36
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

Can I ask you, if you don't mind, to elaborate on why you don't like Germany? I'm in a similar situation, although I don't work in Finance and I don't like the "aggressive fast-paced American-style" management culture.
So far no luck in finding a job in CH, and I also have another constrain: Other than not wanting to accept offers for roles lower than the one I'm currently in, I don't work to work for any Swiss bank, or for any Pharma company, for ethical reasons.
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  #83  
Old 28.08.2011, 20:17
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

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Can I ask you, if you don't mind, to elaborate on why you don't like Germany? I'm in a similar situation, although I don't work in Finance and I don't like the "aggressive fast-paced American-style" management culture.
So far no luck in finding a job in CH, and I also have another constrain: Other than not wanting to accept offers for roles lower than the one I'm currently in, I don't work to work for any Swiss bank, or for any Pharma company, for ethical reasons.
I don't recall saying that I do not like Germany. My motivation to move to Switzerland is based on 'positive' arguments. Different corporate cultures suit different people better - i like progressive cultures, embracing change, results oriented, etc. but who knows this may change over time.

Ethics seem to be a big issue here on this board (at least, last couple of days). Personally I have less of an issue with that, as long as you individually are a force for good.

Besides, pharma companies have made it possible for many people to live longer and have higher quality of lives. Hard to argue against that.
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  #84  
Old 28.08.2011, 22:53
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

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EU passport and currently living/working in Germany.

I've spent a lot of time networking, contacting recruiters (agencies as well as with large companies themselves, etc.), looking at online job boards, etc.

I have been selective in that I'm not looking to make a step down just to make it to Switzerland. I'm OK to be on a local package but not 1-2 levels lower than I should be at based on work experience, current level, etc.

I just find it terribly frustrating. In Germany I could stick my head out of the window and easily find a handful of good opportunities in no time. In Switzerland, it's like trying to find a diamond in the desert.
what could there be in your profile that puts the swiss off you? I find your situation quite strange. Surely the selection criteria in the German and swiss recruitment markets are not so different?
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  #85  
Old 28.08.2011, 23:10
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

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what could there be in your profile that puts the swiss off you? I find your situation quite strange. Surely the selection criteria in the German and swiss recruitment markets are not so different?
I don't have the impression I necessarily am hitting the wall with the Swiss necessarily. Contact is primarily with large multinationals staffed with a diverse nationalities.
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  #86  
Old 29.08.2011, 10:31
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

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what could there be in your profile that puts the swiss off you? I find your situation quite strange. Surely the selection criteria in the German and swiss recruitment markets are not so different?
Not so sure about that. I do find german and Swiss (german) culture very different from one another. OP says he is Dutch, which probably means he is better suited for German culture than the Swiss.

Mind you, there are already heaps of Dutch and German people living in Switzerland. He would need to bring very specific skills which the employer can not find locally. Its always easier to take on a foreigner who has already been here for a while, has a residence permit and does not need to relocate.
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  #87  
Old 29.08.2011, 10:45
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

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Mind you, there are already heaps of Dutch and German people living in Switzerland. He would need to bring very specific skills which the employer can not find locally. Its always easier to take on a foreigner who has already been here for a while, has a residence permit and does not need to relocate.
yup. plus switzerland is so different that recruiting, you are always nervous that someone will come, hate it and leave after a few months/years - so much better to get someone who has lived here for a while and knows what they are getting into.
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  #88  
Old 29.08.2011, 21:15
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

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yup. plus switzerland is so different that recruiting, you are always nervous that someone will come, hate it and leave after a few months/years - so much better to get someone who has lived here for a while and knows what they are getting into.
I've lived on 3 continents already in a wide range of countries - i think my "adaptability" should not be an issue of concern. In addition, I speak German (have worked in Germany for >4 years) and specific personal reasons to be in Switzerland - it's not a "flavor du jour" for me.

Now that I'm here posting anyway, just heard from a very attractive position i was interviewing for and smoothly proceeding through the process: position put on hold.

Barely a month ago I felt great for having 3 attractive opportunities in progress:
- 1: position put on hold
- 2: position put on hold
- 3: dinged - they put a lot of weight on a very very specific piece of experience which I do not have

Back to "empty handed" again
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  #89  
Old 29.08.2011, 22:46
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

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Nah, I think you would have just shrugged your shoulders and realized that they still need you for performing tasks that they dont have the labor force for. The Italians get worked up by things like this though. Thats more entertaining than anything else to listen to her co-workers vent.

But things like that are far from the end of the world. The Swiss are non-confrontational. So when they have a chance to stick it to some-one, without actually having to see that person, they do it.
What s wrong with the Italians. You keep mentioning them.
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  #90  
Old 29.08.2011, 22:59
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

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I've lived on 3 continents already in a wide range of countries - i think my "adaptability" should not be an issue of concern. In addition, I speak German (have worked in Germany for >4 years) and specific personal reasons to be in Switzerland - it's not a "flavor du jour" for me.
actually, that would probably concern me more as you will have an idea of what life could be like outside of switzerland!

the question is not about adaptability, but willingness to make the compromises that switzerland forces you to make.
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  #91  
Old 30.08.2011, 14:04
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

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- 1: position put on hold
- 2: position put on hold
These tend to have a tendency to come back. Switzerland is going through a very trying time economically at the moment and with a small population and no natural resources, they tend to be more careful than anything else. One of the things that you need to know about the country is that these sort of decisions take a very very long time here. Seriously continents drift faster than recruitment moves here.
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  #92  
Old 30.08.2011, 14:44
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

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These tend to have a tendency to come back. Switzerland is going through a very trying time economically at the moment and with a small population and no natural resources, they tend to be more careful than anything else. One of the things that you need to know about the country is that these sort of decisions take a very very long time here. Seriously continents drift faster than recruitment moves here.
Good point. I recently got a phonecall from a company where I applied 4 years ago, asking if I was still interested in working for them
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  #93  
Old 30.08.2011, 15:41
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

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Good point. I recently got a phonecall from a company where I applied 4 years ago, asking if I was still interested in working for them
I had an experience like this as well a few years ago - received a call for a role in Kabul, Afghanistan. Had applied to this role year earlier but got rejected as I had insufficient war zone experience. When I asked why they were looking again, the answer i got from the headhunter was: the incumbent had an unfortunate accident. So I asked "what kind of an accident". He said: he was driving to work, his car was blocked by another car, two men got out and fired at him from AK47 at close range and he died. Not really a great way to sell a role I'd think but I really appreciated his honesty. To reciprocate, I was also honest by indicating my $ expectations had just gone way up (and apparently beyond their budget so our conversation ended soon enough).

Would have definately been an interesting experience though
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  #94  
Old 30.08.2011, 16:10
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

Dear desperate,

Keep on trying. Hopefully my story will cheer you up:

Iíve moved in Geneva in 2009 with a big multinational as an intra-company transfer. Once Iíve learned I will have to move with my employer to another location, which I did not like, Iíve started my job search here. Parameters were also quite specific in terms of position and industry, however geographically Iíve looked within EU and UK, even though I speak only Russian, English and French. 243 rejections, ca. 20 face-to-face interviews in different countries Ė and after a year full of frustration and uncertainty, being an inch away from giving in, Iíve found my almost-dream-job in Zurich.

So donít give up Ė that will come sooner or later. Probably you want the job in CH that bad, so it doesn't come easy. The less you care about something, the easier you achieve that. I wish someone would tell me that at the beginning of my search
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Old 04.09.2011, 23:29
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

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the question is not about adaptability, but willingness to make the compromises that switzerland forces you to make.
Phil_MCR

Could you elaborate on that ? What compromises do you mean ?
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  #96  
Old 04.09.2011, 23:33
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

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Phil_MCR

Could you elaborate on that ? What compromises do you mean ?
it's a lifestyle/personality thing. if you come from overseas and have a certain personality, you will feel and understand the difference.

if you don't, it can't really be explained to you, but you don't need to worry about it anyway.
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Old 04.09.2011, 23:45
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it's a lifestyle/personality thing. if you come from overseas and have a certain personality, you will feel and understand the difference.

if you don't, it can't really be explained to you, but you don't need to worry about it anyway.
What Phil is trying to say is: It all depends on what you consider "Quality of life?".... Do you want a nice spacious home, with a big dog, picket fence, 2 cars, sunny weather, freedom to do your laundry when you want etc etc? Then move to the USA. They dont have that in Switzerland.

Do you want predictable train schedules, a solid currency income, a small but sensible apartment, damn near guaranteed high income, and you dont need sunny weather to keep you warm and happy? Then move to Switzerland.
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  #98  
Old 05.09.2011, 03:13
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

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Seriously continents drift faster than recruitment moves here.
Seriously, I had to laugh at that. Although its complete rubbish.
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Old 05.09.2011, 11:02
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

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Although its complete rubbish.
Well, it is my experience and opinion that this is the case. I know more than one person that would agree (often after spending more than a year looking for a job at certain levels), although I would agree that geography does move a little slower, but not much.
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  #100  
Old 05.09.2011, 23:46
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Re: Reaching the point of giving up

Dear Desperate,

I do sympathise with your situation but am having trouble with the title of your post "....reaching a point to give up". So what would you do if you give up? Settle down in Germany? You said you have a good job and the only reason you want to move here is personal. I am assuming that reason will not go away just because you don't find a job. What do you have to lose if you continue having a job in Germany and at the same time continue looking for a job. it may take days, weeks or months but doing something about a situation you want to change versus doing nothing, i am guessing with your experience the answer to that question is quite simple.

So pull yourself up, stop nagging. Surely ask for advice how to improve but don't complain. there are millions out there who are unemployed and can't find a job. So be grateful you have one, continue searching, continue networking, modifying styles, approaches until you get it right trusting that when the right time and job comes, you will get the next plane to CH. Until then, enjoy your job in Germany.
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