Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #141  
Old 09.02.2012, 00:56
AnAustralian's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,207
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 560 Times in 318 Posts
AnAustralian is considered knowledgeableAnAustralian is considered knowledgeableAnAustralian is considered knowledgeable
Re: Reaching the point of giving up

There are jobs out there but many companies did freeze jobs prior to Christmas because of uncertainty in the EU economic climate. There are small indicators highlighting that the EU climate might be more positive, but not enough for companies to head down the path of taking on excessive risk via hiring. Its a wait and see approach. However if you have niche skills still a good chance of finding that role.
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 09.02.2012, 01:08
desperate's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 271
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 155 Times in 101 Posts
desperate has annoyed a few people around heredesperate has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Reaching the point of giving up

Quote:
View Post
There are jobs out there but many companies did freeze jobs prior to Christmas because of uncertainty in the EU economic climate. There are small indicators highlighting that the EU climate might be more positive, but not enough for companies to head down the path of taking on excessive risk via hiring. Its a wait and see approach. However if you have niche skills still a good chance of finding that role.
Yep, perfect fit seems to be the threshold. I joked about it with the headhunter who approached me for the second job I mentioned. The job spec was very detailed (good) but the "requirements" defined for the right candidate was simply impossible for a human being to meet:
- generalist who is also a specialist in many things
- strategic thinker who also loves the details
- business focused but with accounting background
- etc etc etc i could go on and on

I've learned to dismiss most of that stuff by now. In the end its largely about chemistry / fit once you meet the basics (i.e. have you had a role similar to this one before). Headhunter did move me on to client so no issue.

Process is also making me realize that in job hunting it's often largely about the "jobs you've had" rather than the "job you've done" if that makes sense.
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 14.02.2012, 05:13
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,433
Groaned at 281 Times in 187 Posts
Thanked 18,156 Times in 7,618 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
View Post
Yep, perfect fit seems to be the threshold. I joked about it with the headhunter who approached me for the second job I mentioned. The job spec was very detailed (good) but the "requirements" defined for the right candidate was simply impossible for a human being to meet:
- generalist who is also a specialist in many things
- strategic thinker who also loves the details
- business focused but with accounting background
- etc etc etc i could go on and on
That's me! Send me the job!
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 14.02.2012, 05:22
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,433
Groaned at 281 Times in 187 Posts
Thanked 18,156 Times in 7,618 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
I should have mentioned it before: groupon are/were setting up a new european hq in schaffhausen and were looking for a FD there. Maybe worth checking if not already filled?
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 14.02.2012, 07:11
dawiz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,112
Groaned at 96 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,050 Times in 1,191 Posts
dawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
View Post
EU passport and currently living/working in Germany.
I believe that might be your problem. Companies are facing increasing opposition to bringing in more people from Germany (no offense, but that's a fact), both from their own staff and from the immigration authorities.

I personally find it hard to see a believable reason behind your strong desire to move to Switzerland. That's none of my business. However, companies usually want to know why their prospective employees want to immigrate, especially if the applicants already live in a country with a similar standard of living and have an excellent job.
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 21.02.2012, 16:56
desperate's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 271
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 155 Times in 101 Posts
desperate has annoyed a few people around heredesperate has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Reaching the point of giving up

Good news, progress!

Very very large FMCG - passed the headhunter Partner and now in process of setting up meeting with the client.

The even larger FMCG which had gone dead before - they just re-contacted me and atter all want to plan in another conversation. Things must have changed internally and they want to explore things.

Third, with a large conglomerate, passed the second round and have the third round planned in. Competition limited to just me vs. 2 others now.

Feeling upbeat!

Oh, thanks for the groupon mention. Haven't been into this thread for a while and had only just noticed - will have a look.

Why Switzerland? I have good reasons and they've never been questioned during interviews (in fact, spoken with a few people who confirmed their move to Switzerland had the exact same background), but this is not something I want to expand on here, it's also not the point of the thread. Seems like people have a hard time understanding that there are also people who are genuinely enthusiastic about Switzerland
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank desperate for this useful post:
  #147  
Old 21.02.2012, 17:23
martin959's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: St Gallen
Posts: 1,258
Groaned at 27 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 575 Times in 327 Posts
martin959 has earned the respect of manymartin959 has earned the respect of manymartin959 has earned the respect of many
Re: Reaching the point of giving up

Good luck with the interview!!! =D Best wishes! I hope you get that job!!!

Quote:
View Post
Good news, progress!

Very very large FMCG - passed the headhunter Partner and now in process of setting up meeting with the client.

The even larger FMCG which had gone dead before - they just re-contacted me and atter all want to plan in another conversation. Things must have changed internally and they want to explore things.

Third, with a large conglomerate, passed the second round and have the third round planned in. Competition limited to just me vs. 2 others now.

Feeling upbeat!

Oh, thanks for the groupon mention. Haven't been into this thread for a while and had only just noticed - will have a look.

Why Switzerland? I have good reasons and they've never been questioned during interviews (in fact, spoken with a few people who confirmed their move to Switzerland had the exact same background), but this is not something I want to expand on here, it's also not the point of the thread. Seems like people have a hard time understanding that there are also people who are genuinely enthusiastic about Switzerland
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 21.02.2012, 18:35
Salsa_Lover's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 93
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 98 Times in 46 Posts
Salsa_Lover is considered knowledgeableSalsa_Lover is considered knowledgeableSalsa_Lover is considered knowledgeable
Re: Reaching the point of giving up

Quote:
View Post
Yep, perfect fit seems to be the threshold. I joked about it with the headhunter who approached me for the second job I mentioned. The job spec was very detailed (good) but the "requirements" defined for the right candidate was simply impossible for a human being to meet:
- generalist who is also a specialist in many things
- strategic thinker who also loves the details
- business focused but with engineering background
- etc etc etc i could go on and on

I've learned to dismiss most of that stuff by now. In the end its largely about chemistry / fit once you meet the basics (i.e. have you had a role similar to this one before). Headhunter did move me on to client so no issue.

Process is also making me realize that in job hunting it's often largely about the "jobs you've had" rather than the "job you've done" if that makes sense.
sounds like me
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 21.02.2012, 18:45
Salsa_Lover's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 93
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 98 Times in 46 Posts
Salsa_Lover is considered knowledgeableSalsa_Lover is considered knowledgeableSalsa_Lover is considered knowledgeable
Re: Reaching the point of giving up

Ok now seriously let me give you a hint about all this.

To get a job in Switzerland nowadays has become more difficult, and to get the job on favorable conditions and a good contract even less.

Simply you have to excel in everything and be over qualified for the position ( but not in excess otherwise you are left out because your expectations could be too high ).

You have to be the best candidate they can find, with am impresive skillset, experience and work history, even if the position doesn't require all that skill and experience.

It is like making a camel pass through a needle's eye.

why ? simply because they can. There are so many applicants, locally and all around europe and the world that would like the position that they simply can set the expectations very high.

That and also you have to be already in to be allowed in. ( circular conditioning ). So for example you have to have a very good experience in Index Solutions to get a job in the Index Solutions Business. If you don't have it, you are out, they don't even consider your profile, ( sure you could learn quickly and do it better than most, but that doesn't matter, you simpy won't pass the first recruiting step ).

As a result the business people inside complain there are no good candidates in the market, or even that there are no candidates to chose from. But well there are dozens or even hundreds that are willing to work on that position, and maybe could do it well, but will not pass through the several layers of recruiting.

On the other hand, for us who are already inside since a long time and have a good history and reputation, it is easy.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Salsa_Lover for this useful post:
  #150  
Old 21.02.2012, 19:02
Verbier's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lully VD
Posts: 4,326
Groaned at 16 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 4,532 Times in 2,306 Posts
Verbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond reputeVerbier has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Reaching the point of giving up

An interesting article from Forbes last year.

Top Executive Recruiters Agree There Are Only Three True Job Interview Questions.

The only three true job interview questions are:

1. Can you do the job?
2. Will you love the job?
3. Can we tolerate working with you?


Link: http://www.forbes.com/sites/georgebr...iew-questions/
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Verbier for this useful post:
  #151  
Old 21.02.2012, 19:13
silverburn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Unterageri
Posts: 826
Groaned at 37 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 833 Times in 343 Posts
silverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Reaching the point of giving up

I took me 3 years to get here, and I believe I got in because:

- I had intimate knowledge of the parent company (I worked there for 6 years)
- My IT skills are still quite specialised, and experience in certain markets is deemed advantageous
- <insert various "Nobody else is more qualified, more experienced or can leverage the role to the companies advantage like I can" statements here>

What I believe counted against me was my lack of german - I had 6 interviews in total.

However, when asked "Why Switzerland?", I just knew this was the key question of the entire process.

If your reason for coming to Switzerland is NOT a "lifelong ambition/already have family roots here/visit 3-4 times a year/this is a permanent life decision/I have not underestimated the scope of what it will take/it will benefit my family in the long term/I enjoy a number of the local customs and lifestyles", then expect that to count against your application.

If you mention anything even remotely along the lines of "It's good money/easy life/I heard Switzerland is great & I speak German", then just stand up and leave - you have already blown it. They want people who *really want* to be here, will fit in, and won't treat it like a 3 year sabatical - especially if you're pitching at director level.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank silverburn for this useful post:
  #152  
Old 22.02.2012, 09:56
red_conundrum's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bqoiutniw
Posts: 371
Groaned at 84 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 574 Times in 205 Posts
red_conundrum has a reputation beyond reputered_conundrum has a reputation beyond reputered_conundrum has a reputation beyond reputered_conundrum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Reaching the point of giving up

Dear desperate,

I also come from a very go-getter, driven industry background. I'm in high-tech, so I don't know much about finance and what it entails, but I have worked in very, very fast-paced companies in an industry that changes very rapidly, so I sort of see where you're coming from and kind of what you're looking for.

I've worked in the US, the UK, France, and Switzerland, so I can more or less compare with other places to give you an idea of my impressions. And this is what I've observed.

1. Switzerland is VERY conservative, businesswise. Most of Europe is, relative to the US. Companies here are very cautionary, very risk averse, and this is true both for how they hire, how they run their operations and business. You will not, (at least speaking from my experience in high tech), EVER find a fast-paced or "change-driven" work environment with a large company in Switzerland.

2. When the Swiss say they want someone to "drive change" and "different culture", what they really mean is they want someone that will follow their rules and once in a while suggest something new. They don't usually mean what Americans mean by "fresh ideas and new directions".

3. In Switzerland, hierarchy and title-enhanced "respect" is very important. Brazenness and disagreement are feared and avoided. When you get a job here, you will find that aggressively driving change and disagreeing with the corporate culture will blacklist you very, very quickly. You will be "sanitized" out, if you're not very careful.

So, that being said, from what you seem to look for, which is a large multinational with dynamic work environment, you may be looking at maybe 1, perhaps even 2 (and I very much doubt even that) firms in all of Switzerland that may fit, if you're lucky.

So you'll have to change some of your criteria (i.e. either release your requirement for "change-driven" and "dynamic" or release your requirement for "large multinational") or use your creativity and drive to create an opportunity for yourself from scratch (i.e. start your own business).

My suggestion is: try smaller firms. I for instance now found a job with a company that has less than 200 employees here in Switzerland so they were open and eager to get someone with a "startup", dynamic mentality and work ethic. They recently got acquired by a big firm in Asia. Perhaps you could find something like this: a small firm that welcomes you, then you drive them to become a multinational. Bingo, you get what you want, only it was as a direct result of your efforts, not something that was already there. That is probably far more interesting than joining a corporate culture that already exists and needs changing instead of growing something exactly the way you want it from humble beginnings.

The other option: partner up with some friends and start your own firm. If you're as dynamic as you claim to be, I might even be willing to interview with you guys. .

Good luck!
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank red_conundrum for this useful post:
  #153  
Old 26.02.2012, 12:39
desperate's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 271
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 155 Times in 101 Posts
desperate has annoyed a few people around heredesperate has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Reaching the point of giving up

Quote:
View Post
Ok now seriously let me give you a hint about all this.

To get a job in Switzerland nowadays has become more difficult, and to get the job on favorable conditions and a good contract even less.

Simply you have to excel in everything and be over qualified for the position ( but not in excess otherwise you are left out because your expectations could be too high ).

You have to be the best candidate they can find, with am impresive skillset, experience and work history, even if the position doesn't require all that skill and experience.

It is like making a camel pass through a needle's eye.

why ? simply because they can. There are so many applicants, locally and all around europe and the world that would like the position that they simply can set the expectations very high.

That and also you have to be already in to be allowed in. ( circular conditioning ). So for example you have to have a very good experience in Index Solutions to get a job in the Index Solutions Business. If you don't have it, you are out, they don't even consider your profile, ( sure you could learn quickly and do it better than most, but that doesn't matter, you simpy won't pass the first recruiting step ).

As a result the business people inside complain there are no good candidates in the market, or even that there are no candidates to chose from. But well there are dozens or even hundreds that are willing to work on that position, and maybe could do it well, but will not pass through the several layers of recruiting.

On the other hand, for us who are already inside since a long time and have a good history and reputation, it is easy.
This is not something unique to Switzerland of course. To get a job, more important during interviews than the "work you have actually done" is typically simply the "jobs you've had".

A mediocre sales person with 10 years of experience will get a sales job sooner than a high flying marketing person without sales experience, in most situations. It's the old (to put it in IT lingo) "nobody was ever fire for choosing SAP" kind of thinking.
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 26.02.2012, 12:45
desperate's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 271
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 155 Times in 101 Posts
desperate has annoyed a few people around heredesperate has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Reaching the point of giving up

Quote:
View Post
If your reason for coming to Switzerland is NOT a "lifelong ambition/already have family roots here/visit 3-4 times a year/this is a permanent life decision/I have not underestimated the scope of what it will take/it will benefit my family in the long term/I enjoy a number of the local customs and lifestyles", then expect that to count against your application.

If you mention anything even remotely along the lines of "It's good money/easy life/I heard Switzerland is great & I speak German", then just stand up and leave - you have already blown it. They want people who *really want* to be here, will fit in, and won't treat it like a 3 year sabatical - especially if you're pitching at director level.
I fall squarely in the first group (my profile pic gives one indication) - and the topic therefore is not at all controversial during interviews. On more than one occasion when asked "why switzerland?" the response to my reply has been very positive and even indicating that my interviewer had made the exact same considerations many years ago and love it in Switzerland.

Anyway, also got contacted for a 4th opportunity - also FMCG. Not Switzerland, but in this case I'd make an exception as it would probably get me there eventually and is a great company with potentially fascinating/enriching experience.

Coming week will be important - 2 videoconference interviews, 1 face to face one, and one of the FMCG's already blocked my agenda mid march to fly in for face to face.

To be honest, from months of dry spells it has now become very difficult for me to juggle these opportunities in parallel... would really be best to nail one or two down in coming weeks and get it over with! Can only use the dentist / doctor excuse so many times before it gets stale...
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 26.02.2012, 13:32
Caviarchips's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel Stadt
Posts: 3,979
Groaned at 99 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 6,677 Times in 2,388 Posts
Caviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Reaching the point of giving up

I hope you take this as constructive and helpful - its meant to be

Have you thought about the reasons and benefits for you in posting your autobiographical details so openly and so regularly? I mean - why are you doing it? Not that its not good for us to hear the details of other lives...but senior level roles in Swiss FMCG companies TEND to be filled by ex-pats and most international companies have English as the common language, so guess where such people hang out online.

And if I were such a person (maybe I am) and I thought that the person being interviewed by me was also chasing four other opportunities in the desperate (you said it!) desire to get Switzerland rather than having a particular interest in my job or company, then I'd think twice about recruiting.

Also, I disagree with the point about having a great answer about "Why move to Switzerland?" For me, that is a minor consideration and comes as long way after qualification and suitability for the role. In fact, I have turned down two internal transfers in the past 12 months based on the fact that the candidate seemed more interested in the country than the role. Of course - be enthusiastic, moving is no issue etc, but I'd caution against that being too high on the list of motivating factors

Anyway, meant to be positive, not critical. Hope the sessions go well and you secure your dream move, but don't forget that I or Assassin or Lost Inbroad or Mirfield could be the person interviewing you
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Caviarchips for this useful post:
  #156  
Old 26.02.2012, 13:48
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 9,138
Groaned at 170 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 25,643 Times in 6,892 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Reaching the point of giving up

Quote:
View Post
Idon't forget that I or Assassin or Lost Inbroad or Mirfield could be the person interviewing you
Or me. And I'd not hire you as you don't have enough groans.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #157  
Old 26.02.2012, 15:37
desperate's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 271
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 155 Times in 101 Posts
desperate has annoyed a few people around heredesperate has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Reaching the point of giving up

Good point. Silent mode it is.

Best wishes to all
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
UK Police, whats the point of them? bigblue2 International affairs/politics 77 05.03.2013 16:55
Can my husband and I share the point to point ticket? braxton_ct Transportation/driving 24 13.08.2010 13:08
Californians in CH - proper way of giving up residency in CA? zufimufi Finance/banking/taxation 10 25.03.2010 05:45
Shifting of Swisscom cable point from one wall to the other... gsach Housing in general 2 01.12.2009 17:57
Whats the point of a helmet?? Castro General off-topic 8 01.06.2008 10:21


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0