Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 27.08.2011, 12:34
Longbyt's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,103
Groaned at 57 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 12,980 Times in 4,732 Posts
Longbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jobs Offers vs Ethics

Quite apart from the ethics of the matter, I'd literally be shaking in my shoes that I'd get found out and lose both job offers.
More than once I have been surprised by 'oh, of course, I know who you are, you are...' and this, for example, by someone I'd never heard of who lives in Geneva. Just imagine bosses in similar fields, HR personnel who get together for a coffee...

Last edited by Longbyt; 27.08.2011 at 13:58.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank Longbyt for this useful post:
  #42  
Old 27.08.2011, 12:35
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 244
Groaned at 63 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 121 Times in 68 Posts
MarkH is considered unworthyMarkH is considered unworthyMarkH is considered unworthyMarkH is considered unworthy
Re: Jobs Offers vs Ethics

I would get the job contract for December signed and sealed etc.

Then just take 2 months off and do some travelling or chill etc.
Life is not all about work.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank MarkH for this useful post:
  #43  
Old 27.08.2011, 13:32
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: USA, former Zurich
Posts: 2,041
Groaned at 14 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 4,811 Times in 1,660 Posts
BokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jobs Offers vs Ethics

Dear OP, it also really depends on your financial situation, which we do not know in detail. If I was in your shoes, if I had a little "cushion" (e.g some savings or other income to bridge the 2-month gap) I would wait for the December job and in the meantime do other things - an intensive language class, some traveling, community service, whatever. The December job is, as you describe it, your dream job - it is hard enough to find a job in this economy, let alone something you are really passionate about, so I would not let it go.

If, however, I had financial obligations, or my salary today was absolutely necessary to feed my family, I would not hesitate and take the October job, and see how I like it.

Leaving ethics aside, from a purely practical standpoint, I personally would be cautious about switching jobs after 2 months -as others have correctly pointed out already, Switzerland IS a very small country, people know each other and talk (and exponentially more so the more specialized your field is and/or less people work in it).

Good luck!
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank BokerTov for this useful post:
  #44  
Old 27.08.2011, 15:47
BHBT's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: was Züri
Posts: 947
Groaned at 19 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 901 Times in 415 Posts
BHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jobs Offers vs Ethics

Quote:
View Post
Well I never heard companies pay you a monthly salary of Xk ONLY if they know you stay for many months, otherwise you dont deserve the XK!!!

Sorry during those 2 months, I would earn the salary that i deserve for these 2 months only and NOT 13 months salary that I am intending to run away with????

Who is lying about what??? As they also said, I might like the job and might stay??!
You obviously don't understand my point: in your first 2 months you are not as productive as later, after you've done the learning and networking required to really contribute. So to be fair you would deserve less than 2 months pay.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank BHBT for this useful post:
  #45  
Old 27.08.2011, 16:34
desperate's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 270
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 155 Times in 101 Posts
desperate has annoyed a few people around heredesperate has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Jobs Offers vs Ethics

Quote:
View Post
I have been through a lot with my current employer and he did his best to push me over the edge till I resigned without having another job!

Things worked out really well for me and now i have 2 offers on the table!

One is starting in October (when ill start to be jobless, so perfect timing) and the other one - which is my ideal dream job - will start in December!!

How bad/naughty/unethical to take the first job (permanent offer) to bridge the 2 months jobless period and resign during probation (within 7 days) and start with the December job?

My previous employers have been real mean to me and I start to think I want to work on my interest and do from now whatever is convenient to me only!

Would that be unethical to do so? Hiding the fact I will only work 2 months for the first employer?

Please help me taking this tough decision!
My advice would have been to stick with your current employer until you did find the right new job... but i guess it's too late for that. It would have, at least from a strictly rational financial security point of view, also been the smart thing to do and perfectly defendable. I guess it must have been hell though?
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 28.08.2011, 03:41
cog's Avatar
cog cog is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Currently in Haiti
Posts: 136
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 27 Times in 15 Posts
cog has earned some respectcog has earned some respect
Re: Jobs Offers vs Ethics

this might sound a bit naïve so pardon me, but what i would do if i was in your shoes is i will talk to employer 1 about the situation. maybe they could accept a 2 months arrangement. being transparent is better than coming off a someone sneaky.
if they decide to not let me in. then i'll do some austerity measures then freelance to survive. my eyes would be on the goal: DREAM JOB in december.
my logic being is that: i wouldn't want to lose both jobs, i don't want to look bad in front of 2 companies and finally i'd love to keep the DREAM JOB at all costs!

either that or i would just chill for 2 months in preparation for the DREAM JOB so i could go back to the workforce all fresh and recharged.

that's what i would do. i hope this helps!

Last edited by cog; 28.08.2011 at 03:44. Reason: added chill part
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 28.08.2011, 06:59
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 164 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 8,424 Times in 3,486 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jobs Offers vs Ethics

Quote:
View Post
So you live in a dog-eat-dog world, in which you must eat or be eaten.
This is not my world. I do hope people can reach higher than that.
If making money is all you want to do, it's easy to get rich.

An employee of mine many years ago played a similar trick in order to get a permit. Before and after significant investment, the little hussy looked me straight in the eye and lied. Once she had secured her permit through our efforts and declared her hand - I was pleased to see the back of her. She did ok in her new position but her personal life became a manifestation of her duplicitous nature and she ended up having to abandon her life here and move back to her homeland. Just sayin'.

The point about ethics is one ought to be good for goodness sake. It usually pays in the end.
__________________
Wave ¦ Synthpop ¦ 80's ¦ Alternative ¦ Party ¦ Sat 24.03 Provitreff Zurich
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank Uncle Max for this useful post:
  #48  
Old 28.08.2011, 08:14
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zurich Oberland
Posts: 523
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 470 Times in 239 Posts
woolly has an excellent reputationwoolly has an excellent reputationwoolly has an excellent reputationwoolly has an excellent reputation
Are you even sure that if you resign in the first week they can't just tell you to leave immediately?

They may well have turned down other applicants so you're not just screwing your employer you're denying someone else a job.

Many people would give their left arm for a 2 month sabbatical. If you think you'll be bored do something useful like learning a language, a new skill, volunteer work. All of which will actually look good on your cv, unlike a job that only lasted 2 months because there is really no way of explaining that to a future employer in a way that makes you look good.

You need to think longer term than the next few months.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank woolly for this useful post:
  #49  
Old 28.08.2011, 08:37
Oldhand's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,015
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 6,837 Times in 2,059 Posts
Oldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jobs Offers vs Ethics

If you sign both contracts, one for now and one for later, surely this could be viewed as lack of intention.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Oldhand for this useful post:
  #50  
Old 28.08.2011, 09:43
MarkL2005's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 143
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 65 Times in 29 Posts
MarkL2005 has made some interesting contributions
Re: Jobs Offers vs Ethics

I was in a similar situation to you where I had more than one job offer and had to decide which one to take. In the end my decision turned out to be wrong because I neglected to meet the team colleagues who I would be working with.

You say that the second offer is your ideal dream job but how are you certain about this? There could be numerous unconsidered factors which eventually crop up to undo your perception of the job.

Assuming your financial situation is not a factor, and the two offers are paying the same salaries, benefits, work conditions etc etc, I don't think it's a matter of ethics which you should be asking about. It should be a matter of your gut feel and how you perceive the job to turn out in 1 or 2 years time. That's assuming you intend your next job to span that long.

I have 100% sympathy for what you may have gone through in the company you just quit but if I was the employer of the first company and I realized I got screwed, I would do my best to ensure your reputation follows you to the second company. Although DB's one-liner "What goes around comes around" is often very hard to believe or accept, I do think it is true in Switzerland in the context of employment, but only if you are permanent.

As for your question "Would that be unethical to do so?", we each have our own standards so only you can answer that.

Quote:
View Post
I have been through a lot with my current employer and he did his best to push me over the edge till I resigned without having another job!

Things worked out really well for me and now i have 2 offers on the table!

One is starting in October (when ill start to be jobless, so perfect timing) and the other one - which is my ideal dream job - will start in December!!

How bad/naughty/unethical to take the first job (permanent offer) to bridge the 2 months jobless period and resign during probation (within 7 days) and start with the December job?

My previous employers have been real mean to me and I start to think I want to work on my interest and do from now whatever is convenient to me only!

Would that be unethical to do so? Hiding the fact I will only work 2 months for the first employer?

Please help me taking this tough decision!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MarkL2005 for this useful post:
  #51  
Old 28.08.2011, 10:47
KeinFranzösisch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,198
Groaned at 63 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,115 Posts
KeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jobs Offers vs Ethics

Why not negotiate to perform the bridge job temporarily (be honest with them that this is what you want to do so that neither of you invests too much more in each other),

or

Negotiate with your DREAM job that you would like to start sooner.

or

tough it out with your current situation a bit longer.

or

A combination of the above.


Good luck!!!!

Any tips on how you went about finding these two offers so quickly?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank KeinFranzösisch for this useful post:
  #52  
Old 04.09.2011, 09:08
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Geneva
Posts: 62
Groaned at 16 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 30 Times in 11 Posts
guidette has no particular reputation at present
Re: Jobs Offers vs Ethics

Thank you all for your useful tips!

I now officially signed the contract starting in December and verbally rejected the one for October!

Cheers!
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank guidette for this useful post:
  #53  
Old 04.09.2011, 09:26
Sky's Avatar
Sky Sky is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere special far away
Posts: 4,322
Groaned at 69 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 7,190 Times in 2,662 Posts
Sky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jobs Offers vs Ethics

Took a while to get that sorted out in your mind eh ?
Live and learn.
Seriously:
- Switzerland is a small place, EF is even smaller, many many English speaking people read the forum..
- Buuuuut before even getting to the point of wondering about other people, the thought shouldn't even have crystalized, because.... yup.... it's unethical for sure

Nevertheless people are fallible..... but what may seem like a good idea at the time can come back to bite ya in zee posterior.

Live by the rules and usually things will fall into place nicely.

Hope you enjoy the dream job in December.
Turning down the October one was the thing to do.
Nothing should stop you offering your temporary services though for 2 months to the October job. If you don't have unemployment benefits and you've got to survive until your first pay in end December, ask them if you can temp. Tis also important to stay afloat.
__________________
.
"Il mondo è fatto a scale, chi le scende e chi le sale"
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Sky for this useful post:
  #54  
Old 04.09.2011, 09:32
BHBT's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: was Züri
Posts: 947
Groaned at 19 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 901 Times in 415 Posts
BHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond reputeBHBT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jobs Offers vs Ethics

Quote:
View Post
Thank you all for your useful tips!

I now officially signed the contract starting in December and verbally rejected the one for October!

Cheers!
Good move. Now make sure you enjoy a nice break before starting your dream job!
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank BHBT for this useful post:
  #55  
Old 04.09.2011, 19:27
Meisie's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Amriswil - Thurgau
Posts: 1,691
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 1,262 Times in 584 Posts
Meisie has a reputation beyond reputeMeisie has a reputation beyond reputeMeisie has a reputation beyond reputeMeisie has a reputation beyond reputeMeisie has a reputation beyond reputeMeisie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jobs Offers vs Ethics

You go girl! I'm proud of you
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Selling ethics on EF summerrain Forum support 116 22.09.2010 21:26
What's the ratio of IT jobs in Zurich vs Geneva? canonball Employment 1 22.04.2010 09:22
Work ethics Wasted Employment 31 09.04.2010 19:18
Advice (two potential job offers, Germany vs Switzerland) Tweener Employment 74 13.01.2010 22:26
Swiss government ethics committee debates dignity of plants India Swiss politics/news 4 26.04.2008 21:46


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0