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  #21  
Old 29.08.2011, 17:20
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

does this work also if you're self-employed?

if i lost my job, i wouldn't mind starting-up on my own. i don't expect to earn much to begin with, but if RAV paid me 70% then i would be happy to try it for a year.
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  #22  
Old 29.08.2011, 19:15
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

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does this work also if you're self-employed?

if i lost my job, i wouldn't mind starting-up on my own. i don't expect to earn much to begin with, but if RAV paid me 70% then i would be happy to try it for a year.
Hi Phil,

Not really, however they will pay you for upto 3 months whilst you set up your business, however the first day you trade your on your own. Your rahemnfrist will be doubled to 800 days, so if your business fails you don't loose your previous entitlement.
Depending on your German being self employed is quite complex dealing with the government red tape etc. I did look at it, I was given a German speaking counsellor who said it was not allowed in my case. I have no idea why as I have a 'C' permit.

I have been re reading my friend AhYesBut, I think you are completely missing the point of how the system works.

I have explained how the system works & what is allowed.

I have explained that I have been registered for 5 years, now that's only possible because I have had very minimal claims & not taken the piss.

As I said I am currently working 2-4 days a month, 4 days represents approx 100% insured earnings, 3 days is approximately 75% earnings. 2 days with overtime could exceed 70%, in any of those cases, the RAV is ZERO.

To stay in the system with 400 days insured salary I have to have ZERO claims for a minimum of 18 out of 24 months.
Ones future insured salary is 70% of last 12 months earnings, if any of those months are 0 it's included in the average, so it's VERY important to earn as much as possible as often as possible.

The reason the RAV will not pay for a German course for me is. that I wont be working so they then have to pay me throughout the course. It's far cheaper for them to pay me something the occasional month when I do less than 3 days work or 2 with overtime. I can never really know what I will earn until the day is over, so there is no possibility to 'take the piss', if I tried I would not qualify next time so it would be an own goal.

I sincerely hope you don't find yourself without work, times are very tough it can happen to anyone.

Best FMF
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  #23  
Old 29.08.2011, 19:58
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

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After working in Switzerland for over 2 years, now I'm unemployed and in RAV for 2 months, but i might get the possibility to work for 6 months (short contract). The problem is that this job is only paid 5% more than what RAV is paying me now. Do you know if RAV is going to somehow compensate for the difference between my old salary and my new one? (I'm asking since i heard that RAV is paying you the difference, but maybe only in a case where your future salary is lower than what RAV pays)

also, what happens after 6 months contract? Will my new salary decrease my average sal. (used for RAV calculcations) for the last 2 years ? And how long i will be able to stay with RAV after that? will it be shortened by 6 months i worked?
If you take this job you will not get any payment from the RAV, if you don't take it you may be fined for 3 months & not be paid.

After 6 months you will still be entitle to your unused days at the original rate, the maximum the insurance would pay out is 400 days over 2 years i.e 18 months.
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  #24  
Old 29.08.2011, 22:14
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

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If you take this job you will not get any payment from the RAV, if you don't take it you may be fined for 3 months & not be paid.

After 6 months you will still be entitle to your unused days at the original rate, the maximum the insurance would pay out is 400 days over 2 years i.e 18 months.
why wouldn't i be paid by RAV if i take this job? As i was told, many people in the team end up with less than 40 hours per week worked (it varies). So if sometimes i also work less than 40, i guess i will get RAV payment (because less than 40 hours means i will be below 70% of old salary)

unless i somehow misunderstood you?
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  #25  
Old 29.08.2011, 22:43
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

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If I work 0% RAV pays 70%
If I work 50% the RAV will top up 70% of 50% so + 35% = 85% (Plus 8.33% holiday pay on the 50% earnings)
If I work 69% the RAV adds 21.7% = 90.7% (Plus 8.33% holiday pay on 69%)
If I work 71% the RAV top up nothing.
huh? thanks for the detailed example, but this just doesn't make any sense. under this method. if you earn 69%, then you effectively have around 90% of your salary.

but if you earn 71%, you get only 71%.

i know things don't have to be logical, but that just screams out that something is wrong.
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  #26  
Old 29.08.2011, 22:48
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

If you earn 75% of your previous salary you are not entitled to any extra payment, you earn more than the insurance pay out so the system says you are 100% employed.

The RAV always talk about days, it's actually converted back to money. It's assumed that a part time job will have a low salary (such as cleaning), however in IT the day rate may be much higher than an employed salary so 3 days a week could easily exceed 70% previous earnings.

The RAV councillors don't actually understand the system, they always talk about days. I was told that I would not re-qualify due to lack of days, that matched what was written.
However the System uses the 'days' of benefit paid out to calculate your percentage of working.

No payout = 100% working.
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  #27  
Old 29.08.2011, 23:07
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

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huh? thanks for the detailed example, but this just doesn't make any sense. under this method. if you earn 69%, then you effectively have around 90% of your salary.

but if you earn 71%, you get only 71%.

i know things don't have to be logical, but that just screams out that something is wrong.
The effective rate on 69% is actually over 95% including holiday pay.

Phil you got it 100%, my first month ever I earnt just under 70%, paperwork done on 25th month. I then did 120chf of overtime so an additional form was sent in. About 15 months later my file was recalculated and all of my 'bonus' for several months over the previous 18 months was reclaimed.

In effect doing 120chf of overtime cost me 2000 CHF & plus 15 months interest. It's very important to know the rules exactly or you may get caught out. The RAV have an UNLIMITED time to demand money back, I had already paid tax on that money!

At the info meeting you are told that it's always better to do more work, which is clearly inaccurate.

If you are not working you will get sent on training "CV Writing" 2 weeks, "applying for jobs the SWISS way" 2-4 weeks, German lessons 3-6 months, it's very clever as your unemployed for that time so will never qualify for another period. Your are legally required to do all and every course except if your WORKING!

As I have always been working rather than attending courses, they no longer book me on them, the courses are run by private companies, being Zurich are rather expensive.

Best FMF
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  #28  
Old 31.08.2011, 00:15
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

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The effective rate on 69% is actually over 95% including holiday pay.

Phil you got it 100%, my first month ever I earnt just under 70%, paperwork done on 25th month. I then did 120chf of overtime so an additional form was sent in. About 15 months later my file was recalculated and all of my 'bonus' for several months over the previous 18 months was reclaimed.

In effect doing 120chf of overtime cost me 2000 CHF & plus 15 months interest. It's very important to know the rules exactly or you may get caught out. The RAV have an UNLIMITED time to demand money back, I had already paid tax on that money!

At the info meeting you are told that it's always better to do more work, which is clearly inaccurate.

If you are not working you will get sent on training "CV Writing" 2 weeks, "applying for jobs the SWISS way" 2-4 weeks, German lessons 3-6 months, it's very clever as your unemployed for that time so will never qualify for another period. Your are legally required to do all and every course except if your WORKING!

As I have always been working rather than attending courses, they no longer book me on them, the courses are run by private companies, being Zurich are rather expensive.

Best FMF
do you know of any official documents which indicate the calculation method/basis? i still can't believe this is how it works and would rather think that someone at the RAV made a mistake...
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  #29  
Old 31.08.2011, 00:32
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

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do you know of any official documents which indicate the calculation method/basis? i still can't believe this is how it works and would rather think that someone at the RAV made a mistake...
http://www.treffpunkt-arbeit.ch/arbe...chenverdienst/

http://www.treffpunkt-arbeit.ch/arbeitslos/FAQ/

http://www.treffpunkt-arbeit.ch/arbeitslos/FAQ/frage_9/


Question 9 answers the point, the first line is the important bit, google translation

"They have adopted a (dependent or independent) work, and achieve an income that is less than your ALE"

The ALE is the insurance payout, you have to accept work that pays less than your unemployment pay. If it pays more, it pays more so it's goodbye from us. (it's a legal requirement to accept a job that pays more than ALE)

Best FMF

Edit The 'advantage' to the insured is that the month counts as 100% working, so you re-qualify in 24 months time. If this strange rule did not apply I would probably still not be insured with the RAV. From the way the web site is written, I think that is the intention of the policy.

Last edited by fatmanfilms; 31.08.2011 at 00:42.
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  #30  
Old 12.10.2016, 14:39
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

Another question which hasn't been covered here. In this situation - temp work during RAV - do you have to register with the government as a sole trader or anything like that in order to receive payment from an temp employer?

Or is there a threshold on earnings before you have to register?
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  #31  
Old 12.10.2016, 14:41
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

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Another question which hasn't been covered here. In this situation - temp work during RAV - do you have to register with the government as a sole trader or anything like that in order to receive payment from an temp employer?

Or is there a threshold on earnings before you have to register?
No as your an employee, even if the employment is for just 2 hours.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 14.10.2016 at 19:32. Reason: changed name in quoted text
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  #32  
Old 14.10.2016, 12:38
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

And one last question...

I've been told recently that after a temporary contract, your RAV salary doesn't go back to what it was prior to the temp work. Rather, your RAV payments continue with the salary of the temp contract.

This doesn't seem right to be but does anybody have any experience with this?
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  #33  
Old 14.10.2016, 12:43
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

Depends on whether you de-registered at RAV or not.

If not, then no, you get the same as before.

Tom
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  #34  
Old 14.10.2016, 14:02
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

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Depends on whether you de-registered at RAV or not.

If not, then no, you get the same as before.

Tom
Thanks Tom. And are there any time restrictions for the temp work? The temp contract offer I have is 60% until the end of the year.
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  #35  
Old 14.10.2016, 14:06
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

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Thanks Tom. And are there any time restrictions for the temp work? The temp contract offer I have is 60% until the end of the year.
Then aren't they topping it up at the moment?

Tom
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Old 14.10.2016, 14:08
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

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Then aren't they topping it up at the moment?

Tom
I haven't signed the contract yet. I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing by taking this short term contract.
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  #37  
Old 14.10.2016, 14:20
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

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And one last question...

I've been told recently that after a temporary contract, your RAV salary doesn't go back to what it was prior to the temp work. Rather, your RAV payments continue with the salary of the temp contract.

This doesn't seem right to be but does anybody have any experience with this?
That is incorrect. Once your in a Rahmenfrist your insured salary is fixed for 2 years.

I had several Rahmenfrists, did short contracts of generally higher amounts, but not always, the insured salary always stayed the same. De registering makes no difference, you need to still keep looking for jobs unless you have a contract of unfixed duration. You always need to be looking for 3 months before the end of a contract.

The only time that the insured salary changes if you start a new Rahmenfrist, it's based on the last 6 months earnings or last 12 months if thats better. There is also no cap on earnings per month, so it's quite possible that your insured salary exceeds your earnings by almost 50%, which surprised once when it happened
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  #38  
Old 14.10.2016, 14:31
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

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That is incorrect. Once your in a Rahmenfrist your insured salary is fixed for 2 years.

I had several Rahmenfrists, did short contracts of generally higher amounts, but not always, the insured salary always stayed the same. De registering makes no difference, you need to still keep looking for jobs unless you have a contract of unfixed duration. You always need to be looking for 3 months before the end of a contract.

The only time that the insured salary changes if you start a new Rahmenfrist, it's based on the last 6 months earnings or last 12 months if thats better. There is also no cap on earnings per month, so it's quite possible that your insured salary exceeds your earnings by almost 50%, which surprised once when it happened
Thanks again for the info. They really do look after you!
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  #39  
Old 14.10.2016, 14:36
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

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I haven't signed the contract yet. I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing by taking this short term contract.
Ask RAV directly about that. I'm sure they'll you exactly what FMF wrote in #37 but it's always better to hear it from the horses mouth.
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  #40  
Old 14.10.2016, 14:47
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Re: temporary contract with lower salary while in RAV

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The only time that the insured salary changes if you start a new Rahmenfrist
That's what I meant by de-register, i.e. end the Rahmenfrist.

Tom
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