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Old 14.09.2011, 15:14
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Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

Hello,

I am living in Estonia currently, and I need to move to Switzerland, preferrably Zurich. I have no living permit and currently no way of getting it without job.

I am 34 years old, work in IT area, but I am not fluent in German, and my profile is quite wide. I used to be a narrow professional (software developer), but now I am more like project manager / coordinator, and good just at that.

I've been looking for a job for 5 months using forums, XING, Monster, jobzinzurich sites, 2 agencies and some direct applications to IT companies. Unfortunately so far only rejections. Either profile is too wide (i.e. no deep expertise) or insufficient German.

I am looking for ideas what else can I do ? I was thinking about coming to Zurich just like that for 3 months and start looking on-site, but then I need a place to live, and I called a renting agency, and they told me, that without a contract or living permit it is very unlikely that I can rent a flat.

I am actually ready to do any job for a start, not even my profile or area, to get a permit and start earning money.
I am learning German, going to get certificates, but it will take some time.

I was thinking about working on a farm while I look for a permanent job in IT. Do you know if there is a practice to take workers from abroad to farms ? And can it be the way to get a living permit ?

Can you give me some advice or ideas of where more I could look, and what can I do to get started in Switzerland ? Maybe, someone has some vacancy in their companies ?

I would appreciate any hints.

Thank you,
Svetlana
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Old 14.09.2011, 19:24
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

You could try sharing a flat for a couple months to see who the job search goes. Keep your eyes open for those or search the forum.

But as for your "I'll take any job" comment. Please don't do that! It's a bad move for your career. It might take a while but you will eventually find something right. Jumping into a job you are over qualified for looks very bad on your CV.

Anyway, be patient. There are so many people looking to move to Switzerland right now. Remember, it's a small country.

Good luck with your search!
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Old 14.09.2011, 19:29
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

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Hello,



I was thinking about working on a farm while I look for a permanent job in IT. Do you know if there is a practice to take workers from abroad to farms ? And can it be the way to get a living permit ?
Farmers don`t usually employ workers. They do it all themselves ... with big modern machinery. And those without big modern machinery do it themselves anyway.

And to get a job, you need a permit, and to get a permit you need a job.
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Old 14.09.2011, 19:37
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

Not easy at all, sorry to say. Farmers do 'employ' people from time to time- but judging from the situation here where I live- often on a pittance salary and with awful accommodation. Bonne chance.
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Old 14.09.2011, 20:16
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

Welcome to the Forum, is this you Svetlana?
http://ee.linkedin.com/ deleted

If you have a bit of money you could live here as a tourist and share an apartment while looking,
http://www.wgzimmer.ch/wgzimmer.html?wc_country=ch
but be careful, there are many criminals about. Don't give any money until you have a contract and the keys, & then pay the deposit into a protected bank account with your name on it.

Forget farming. Farmers employ gangs, really bad conditions and long hours.

You might get a job as a waitress, or in a hotel; at least you will be in the city.
http://zuerich.help.ch/verzeichnis.cfm?mandant=31

You need to ask companies like Adecco, Randstad, Kelley for temporary work. Often good temps get offered permanent jobs,
http://www.adecco.ch/en-US/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.randstad.ch/content/findjobs/index.xml
http://kcnch.jobseu.recruitadvantage...job_search.cfm

Last edited by Ittigen; 16.09.2011 at 09:46.
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Old 15.09.2011, 23:31
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Salaries in farming are in the region of 1000-2000net (depending on deductions for food and accommodation) for back-breaking job 50hrs+ work weeks. That's all set for seasonal immigrant workers who spend their savings in Eastern and Southern Europe.
Think also about the German and Austrian job markets as a stepping stone - you'll be learning the language and make the hop sooner or later.
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Old 16.09.2011, 09:09
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

This is the story of a married couple, recent acquaintances of mine, which came this summer from Spain to Zurich in a caravan. Their plan was to live in the caravan in a camp site near lake Zurich, with only their saving after selling their butchery in Valencia due to the economic crisis in Spain. The short story is that HE was able to find work as a par-time construction worker, while SHE was looking and learning German. Now that the vacations and summer have ended, she has been able to get a job in a restaurant and will get the B-permit. He is now out of work. But, with her work and permit, they will be able to find an apartment, hopefully soon, before it gets colder. So it is possible to come to Switzerland and try your luck.

Also, don't forget.... People are very sympathetic, and helpful, as you can read in this forum. All the Best
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Old 16.09.2011, 09:12
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

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Can you give me some advice or ideas of where more I could look, and what can I do to get started in Switzerland ?


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Old 16.09.2011, 09:37
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

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Welcome to the Forum, is this you Svetlana? ...
Helpful comments aside, it is fairly creepy for you to dig out her linkedin profile and share it without her consent to this forum.
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Old 16.09.2011, 09:48
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

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Helpful comments aside, it is fairly creepy for you to dig out her linkedin profile and share it without her consent to this forum.
My girlfriend thinks that I'm a stalker, well, she's not exactly my girlfriend yet.

You are right, post modified. I thought she might like her CV published here, well anyway I bow to your better suggestion.
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Old 16.09.2011, 14:23
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

> But as for your "I'll take any job" comment. Please don't do that! <
Thank you for this comment ! It made me sober immediately. Indeed, it is my thinking about immediate result that drives me here, and not thinking strategically.
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Old 16.09.2011, 14:29
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

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Don't you find it's humiliating and unacceptable to post this, even many beggars had no luck in life like of us to have a job nor support and that's the only way to survive.

Once you lose your home, job, fancy plastic cards, car and everything you have, no one supports you, you haven't eaten for days and you don't have a cent in your pocket, you'll be doing the exact same thing and you'll be really wondering why arrogant wealthy people are so cruel

To OP, you might wanna structure your C.V differently, to make it more straight to the point and build up your career path in a more positive way, if you need help adjusting your C.V to CH standards, feel free to PM, it's not a business proposal, it's just helping a member in need.
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Old 16.09.2011, 14:32
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

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Don't you find it's humiliating and unacceptable to post this, even many beggars had no luck in life like of us to have a job nor support and that's the only way to survive.
obviously no. OK, my sarcasm goes a bit deep at times but if she is even thinking of coming here with no job, no permit, no safety network.. that MAY be where she winds up.
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Old 16.09.2011, 14:36
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

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obviously no. OK, my sarcasm goes a bit deep at times but if she is even thinking of coming here with no job, no permit, no safety network.. that MAY be where she winds up.
Positive realistic comments is what we really should be providing for fellow members, dark humor is not really effective in such a case, OP looks credible enough and not trolling to have such a reply
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Old 16.09.2011, 14:37
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

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Positive realistic comments is what we really should be providing for fellow members, dark humor is not really effective in such a case, OP looks credible enough and not trolling to have such a reply
I don't sing that tune, sometimes dark humour IS realistic.
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Old 16.09.2011, 20:35
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

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> But as for your "I'll take any job" comment. Please don't do that! <
Thank you for this comment ! It made me sober immediately. Indeed, it is my thinking about immediate result that drives me here, and not thinking strategically.
I know how you are feeling but once you take that career hit, it will be difficult for you get back up, especially in Switzerland where they will wonder what you did wrong. They don't look at it favorably.

Sell yourself UP not down.

Good luck!
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Old 16.09.2011, 20:42
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

I read this in a blog about living in Zürich... pretty accurate. I advise you to read it (twice) and take notes.

"If you’ve already landed in Zurich and have a high salary job and accommodation organised for you, then congratulations, because you have one hell of an adventure ahead of you, with enough money to allow you entrance into the most posh, most beautiful and best places in the city, and multiple holidays and weekend breaks around Switzerland and in neighbouring Europe.

If, on the other hand, you’ve landed in Zurich without a pre-arranged job contract, without speaking fluent German, without being a finance or IT genius and, to add insult to injury, with a mere week booked at a hotel (you think you’ll be able to find an apartment to rent easily), then, my dear friend, you’re a complete idiot."
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Old 16.09.2011, 21:11
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

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I read this in a blog about living in Zürich... pretty accurate. I advise you to read it (twice) and take notes.

"If you’ve already landed in Zurich and have a high salary job and accommodation organised for you, then congratulations, because you have one hell of an adventure ahead of you, with enough money to allow you entrance into the most posh, most beautiful and best places in the city, and multiple holidays and weekend breaks around Switzerland and in neighbouring Europe.

If, on the other hand, you’ve landed in Zurich without a pre-arranged job contract, without speaking fluent German, without being a finance or IT genius and, to add insult to injury, with a mere week booked at a hotel (you think you’ll be able to find an apartment to rent easily), then, my dear friend, you’re a complete idiot."
I second that !
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Old 16.09.2011, 21:30
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

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I read this in a blog about living in Zürich... pretty accurate. I advise you to read it (twice) and take notes.

"If you’ve already landed in Zurich and have a high salary job and accommodation organised for you, then congratulations, because you have one hell of an adventure ahead of you, with enough money to allow you entrance into the most posh, most beautiful and best places in the city, and multiple holidays and weekend breaks around Switzerland and in neighbouring Europe.

If, on the other hand, you’ve landed in Zurich without a pre-arranged job contract, without speaking fluent German, without being a finance or IT genius and, to add insult to injury, with a mere week booked at a hotel (you think you’ll be able to find an apartment to rent easily), then, my dear friend, you’re a complete idiot."
Harsh, but I honestly hope it gets the point across.

I'm all for being positive as others are suggesting, but sometimes there's not much to be positive about.


The "Positive" Weejeem says:
  • If you want it, go for it!

  • Something will turn up.

  • Don't sell yourself short.


The Realpolitik Weejeem says:
  • The bottom is falling out of the IT market in CH (yet again).

  • One of the first subtle "barriers" erected is "German-speaker preferred".

  • The place is awash with people looking for project/programme management/office positions. (Good people! Experienced people! With industry knowledge! Local people).

  • Many people as described above are already having to sell themselves short to get work.

  • The OP may be entitled to a job-seeker's L-permit, but that expicitly brings no social security entitlements.

  • From first stepping off the plane, the OP will gently but steadily hemmorhage money until either the money runs out or they are lucky enough to find a job.

  • The OP needs to work the agencies here as well as the HR departments, in a country which is (in)famous for glacial recruitment speeds. The internet and the telephone are her friends at this juncture, not physical presence.


So which should it be? "Positive" or "Honest"'

The decision is the OP's, of course, and I HTH
WJ
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Old 16.09.2011, 22:55
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Re: Coming to Switzerland without job and living permit. How ?

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...

If, on the other hand, you’ve landed in Zurich without a pre-arranged job contract, without speaking fluent German, without being a finance or IT genius and, to add insult to injury, with a mere week booked at a hotel (you think you’ll be able to find an apartment to rent easily), then, my dear friend, you’re a complete idiot."
Quite a simple view, and not true for all cases. If you can bring some skills to the table that are wanted, like I did for example, and do not lack healthy self-confidence in them then success can happen. Even with similar scenario coming here totally unprepared. Good test of psychical strength in the waiting part. But if every position you apply for is target to a hundred similarily skilled persons, with at least few years of swiss experience and perfect knowledge of swiss deutsch, then count your chances...
And with moving here it was impossible for me to live in zurich with less than 1000 fr / month, by my own in flatshare. So prepare for that part also
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