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Old 18.11.2011, 23:25
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a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

hi guys
i may have on the tables 2 possible work offers and I really don't know what to do, so I hope someone can help me to take a decision.
first of all, I have a good job where I am, I earn about 30% more than the average national salary, i don't struggle with money, I'm not rich but I live an easy life;my OH has a decent job too, although she earns just half of what I do.

Scenario no.1: SAP job in basel, salary is 120K chf. The conversion CHF/EUR is great but when I read the threads here, it seems it's not as great as I thought. I would be just a little above the 'poverty' limit. Nothing wrong with it but I have to support my wife while she looks for a job, so it's likely we would struggle a bit.

Scenario no.2: SAP job in london, salary is 65k gbp. the conversion gbp/chf is not fantastic, but perhaps life is london might be easier than in basel and my wife could find a job more quickly. Cost of living is more expensive in Switzerland in most of the cases, so perhaps i can get better value for money if I move to UK?

I hope my questions make sense here, i really dunno what to do if both opportunity come through, maybe some english guy who has lived in London can give me an opinion...it would be really appreciated.

tnx
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Old 18.11.2011, 23:34
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

From someone who arrived here in May. Couple life as you might know is not a single life.

Switzerland has several differences regarding Europe (choice in Supermarkets, opening hours) but Basel is near France and Germany.

What i mean is to go out (drinks price, entry prices in clubs, restaurants, taxis) is expensive.

But for a couple for example in Zurich if you live 20 minutes from Zurich Center (and the transports are FANTASTIC) it is very affordable and doable.

Supermarket is not so expensive, taxs are like heaven.

I would not say that with 120k or 10k/month you would struggle.

I am in that kind of salary, i live in a serviced apartment in Central Zurich (Wipkingen) in a house with 2 years, i eat out a lot, i go to bars, i go Portugal every month and i would say i live a easy life.

But to be fair you need to know what lifestyle you want and most important if the move is ok for your career.

PS: Of course you are like me from Portugal and you like real food you will be poor. Examples:

Renaissance Asian Buffet: 115 chf per person excluding drinks.

A good restaurant with real food: 50 chf per person and wine 60 chf per bottle.

BUT, we are inteligent people and i take a flight i eat real food in Portugal for 50 euros 2 people and it becomes cheaper than eating in switzerland
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Old 19.11.2011, 11:09
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

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Scenario no.1: SAP job in basel, salary is 120K chf. The conversion CHF/EUR is great but when I read the threads here, it seems it's not as great as I thought. I would be just a little above the 'poverty' limit. Nothing wrong with it but I have to support my wife while she looks for a job, so it's likely we would struggle a bit.

Scenario no.2: SAP job in london, salary is 65k gbp. the conversion gbp/chf is not fantastic, but perhaps life is london might be easier than in basel and my wife could find a job more quickly. Cost of living is more expensive in Switzerland in most of the cases, so perhaps i can get better value for money if I move to UK?
120 000CHF and just above the poverty limit??? With all due respect, I dont know what threads you've been reading but I reckon you should do a bit more research. There are many single income families - even with children, living on less than 120 000CHF in Switzerland.

Your question has been asked many times just under a different guise. Start with these two threads to help you get an idea of which country will work better for your situation as no one can make that decision for you. Good luck:

Cost of living - help needed to get it right

FAQ: A brief guide to salaries in Switzerland
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Old 19.11.2011, 11:41
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

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120 000CHF and just above the poverty limit??? With all due respect, I dont know what threads you've been reading but I reckon you should do a bit more research. There are many single income families - even with children, living on less than 120 000CHF in Switzerland.

Your question has been asked many times just under a different guise. Start with these two threads to help you get an idea of which country will work better for your situation as no one can make that decision for you. Good luck:

Cost of living - help needed to get it right

FAQ: A brief guide to salaries in Switzerland
hi
i put 'poverty' between quotation mark for a reason, it was a paradox.
I have read all the topics, including what you suggested (and I thank you for that) but I had a look at this so few doubts came to my mind...

Given that I would not be starving with 120K still I wonder if i can get better like with 65k pounds in London...
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Old 19.11.2011, 12:19
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

I know what a paradox is - thank you very much. Dont let a graph represent/dictate what your new life really can be.

Consider all the factors like accomodation - area you want to live in, number of rooms, cost of groceries, tax, health insurance etc etc - you know what I mean, common sense basic stuff. See if your salary covers and if you are willing to compromise certain things like being able to eat out as often as you can in London.

Do the same for London. Are you willing to live in Greater London versus central for more space? Battle rush hour traffic? Be able to find more variety? Pay higher tax? Not being able to have access to nature unless you drive out of the city?

I think you are just waiting for someone to say "65K in London is not possible", or vice versa: 120K in switzerland? Very comfortable or "no, you must be mad" - but every living situation and lifestyle is different - and that is to address your "I wonder if I can get better with 65K in London".

There are lots of intangible things and your post really is quite vague and generic to give you a more concrete answer. Someone did an excellent post some time back (I cant seem to find it at the moment), with regards to his lifestyle and had very specific calculations asking if it was realistic for Switzerland - that will work better for fellow EFers to give an opinion.

EDIT: found the thread:
Please can you glance at my figures (living costs in Basel)?
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Last edited by summerrain; 19.11.2011 at 12:31.
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Old 19.11.2011, 12:36
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

Before writing sentences that don't make any sense, you'd need to take your research a bit further, and then you'll realize that "I would be just a little above the 'poverty' limit" with 120K CHF is a complete non sense. It's not that hard to figure that out, don't have to be Einstein, trust me.
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Old 19.11.2011, 12:39
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

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Before writing sentences that don't make any sense, you'd need to take your research a bit further, and then you'll realize that "I would be just a little above the 'poverty' limit" with 120K CHF is a complete non sense. It's not that hard to figure that out, don't have to be Einstein, trust me.
pssst...it was a "paradox"
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Old 19.11.2011, 12:41
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

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Before writing sentences that don't make any sense, you'd need to take your research a bit further, and then you'll realize that "I would be just a little above the 'poverty' limit" with 120K CHF is a complete non sense. It's not that hard to figure that out, don't have to be Einstein, trust me.
i thought this forum is here for help other members, especially if there are confused as i am.
I know this topic has been debated many times but my question is not around the 120k being enough? but around what's the best value between the 2 options above. I've been doing a lot of research and i don't think i know what is the best. I'll keep looking around. grazie lo stesso.
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Old 19.11.2011, 12:44
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

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pssst...it was a "paradox"
it's nice to feel welcome in a new place
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Old 19.11.2011, 12:45
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

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i thought this forum is here for help other members, especially if there are confused as i am.
I know this topic has been debated many times but my question is not around the 120k being enough? but around what's the best value between the 2 options above. I've been doing a lot of research and i don't think i know what is the best. I'll keep looking around. grazie lo stesso.
Best value for what?? Your lifestyle? Your health? Your bank account? What?

A steinway grand piano costing 150K usually and on sale for 130K is great value in my eyes versus a 1000CHF Made in Indonesia Yamaha but not many people will agree with me because different people will have different needs/requirements when it comes to an instrument - let alone a life!

Get what I mean?

If its simply your bank account that you are thinking of, simply do the math and research with regards to food etc - then work out if you can save more in London or Switzerland. Simples.
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Old 19.11.2011, 12:45
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

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i thought this forum is here for help other members, especially if there are confused as i am.
I know this topic has been debated many times but my question is not around the 120k being enough? but around what's the best value between the 2 options above. I've been doing a lot of research and i don't think i know what is the best. I'll keep looking around. grazie lo stesso.
My 2 cents, 120K CHF in Switzerland beat 65K GBP in UK, 2:1.
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Old 19.11.2011, 12:51
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

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Get what I mean?
yep, and the last link you gave me is perfect.
tnx
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Old 19.11.2011, 12:52
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

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yep, and the last link you gave me is perfect.
tnx
Good luck and I hope you make a decision soon!
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Old 19.11.2011, 12:54
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

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My 2 cents, 120K CHF in Switzerland beat 65K GBP in UK, 2:1.
happy to hear that, tnx.
however one guy in the other discussion said "I think general buying power is about 2CHF to the £", just the other way around
i'm trying to figure out what's the most accurate estimate now
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Old 19.11.2011, 13:19
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

I have to agree with NikItaly, £65k UK sounds a lot, but in reality after taxes (both direct and indirect) and NI there is not an awful lot left. Here, yes it can be expensive if you want the tourist lifestyle but I for one quickly adapted to local living and it does not have to be extortionate. You also see a lot more of your earnings at the end of the month.

More importantly I think the question for you is would you wife/partner find work over here, you may be better off being a working couple in the UK rather than a single income couple here.

Only you can make a decision as to what is right, yes opinions can steer but what do you need or want to bring happiness to both your and your partners life.

PS. 120K Chf's here is a nice to have salary, lots do very well on much less.
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Old 19.11.2011, 14:35
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

I would say that 65k in London is about 120/130k here plus a great quality of life.
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Old 19.11.2011, 14:40
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Salarywise, there's not enough in it to decide based on that. Depends if London life or Swiss life suits you more.
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Old 20.11.2011, 02:25
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

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i thought this forum is here for help other members, especially if there are confused as i am.
I know this topic has been debated many times but my question is not around the 120k being enough? but around what's the best value between the 2 options above. I've been doing a lot of research and i don't think i know what is the best. I'll keep looking around. grazie lo stesso.
Converting salaries is the wrong way to deal with this issue. You need to find out costs. Not only that, what will your partner do? Will she find a job? Depending on her field it might not be that easy in Switzerland especially if she doesn't know the local language.

I'd say go to London.
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Old 20.11.2011, 02:47
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

The less-than-warm welcome received isn't surprising, given the frequency this same question is asked, and the fact that many on the forum live nicely with much less than 120k chf.
That said, i would suggest youput much more than money in the equation. What is your life-style? What will your partner/girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband do? What do you like to do? Do you plan to have children soon?

Also, an SAP job can be very different from another. Moving to some areas of Switzerland, only to find that you hate your new golden job can happen. Around London, the job market will offer you more chances to change if needed.

If you are looking for stability, and you think you may like to plan a career with a Swiss company, it is a great move; there is a lot of long termers still today, and loyalty is greatly appreciated. Ski, hiking, are great perks. On the other hand, there is little leading edge technically, creativity is not quite at a peak professionally...
Prego lo stesso.
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Old 20.11.2011, 09:48
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Re: a big dilemma between 2 scenarios

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I would say that 65k in London is about 120/130k here plus a great quality of life.
really?

I have friends who live out side of London (only way they could afford a house) travel an hour into London on a salary just a bit less that 65k and I know they are struggling

Granted they are a family of 4 with only the one income but when I say struggling I mean really struggling so a family of 2 on that income is going to have a bit more but I don't think a lot more.

Also you haven't indicated what your wifes skills are as to whether she may find it easy to get a job here. My skills were not in IT and banking and therefore it took me over 4 years to find a decent income job - but during those 4 years we survived very nicely on one income which then was not disimilar to what you are being offered
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