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  #21  
Old 26.11.2011, 23:56
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

I would probably ring in sick for a month
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  #22  
Old 27.11.2011, 00:21
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

Tell your boss to f&ck off...unless he gives you an exemplary reference and all the time off you need...

What's the worst he can do if you do, fire you ?
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  #23  
Old 27.11.2011, 09:07
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

Before everyone goes OTT and gives advice which could cause the chap in question a load of trouble, I wish the OP would come back and give a little bit of accurate information. I'm assuming that a boss in Switzerland didn't actually say, 'sosacked', so it might be interesting to know exactly what he did say and to whom.
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  #24  
Old 27.11.2011, 09:21
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

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Novartis is at the moment asking (indeed expecting) several hundred people to stay on and train the new guys in India for at least a year. I think it sucks, but definitely "allowed".
My experience of hand-overs is that, even with the best will in the world, they rarely work. Facts can be passed on, but experience - how to deal with things when it all goes horribly wrong - is very difficult to transfer.

Handovers only exist because managers follow the logic of "We must do something for handover. This is something. Let's do it". The fact that it rarely works - more often than not ending in costly disaster - doesn't impinge on the tiny minds of those who come up with such strategies, because it's the only strategy they can think of. Disaster follows disaster, yet they continue down the same route again and again, in the hope that this time it'll be different.

History repeats itself. It has to. No-one listens.
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Old 27.11.2011, 09:52
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

Tell your friend to ontact RAV immediately. They are your best friend and on your side in this, and will help you on anything related to his employment situation. They may even have a new job in their database for him.

Also apply for new jobs ASAP, and should he get an Interview, the current employer must give him time off for Interviews.

Doc.
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  #26  
Old 27.11.2011, 10:07
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

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My experience of hand-overs is that, even with the best will in the world, they rarely work. Facts can be passed on, but experience - how to deal with things when it all goes horribly wrong - is very difficult to transfer.

Handovers only exist because managers follow the logic of "We must do something for handover. This is something. Let's do it". The fact that it rarely works - more often than not ending in costly disaster - doesn't impinge on the tiny minds of those who come up with such strategies, because it's the only strategy they can think of. Disaster follows disaster, yet they continue down the same route again and again, in the hope that this time it'll be different.

History repeats itself. It has to. No-one listens.
I've experienced both; a proper handover for a couple of weeks and someone scarpering after a day and half and I know which induction method I'd prefer!

True they can't teach you about every eventuality but they can equip you with finding ways of coping when disaster does strike. In the job where my predecessor buggered off in under two days it took me ages to get to grips with the job, making more mistakes than being productive.

I won't even go into the job I started where the predecessor had left some weeks before I arrived. Most painful start I have ever had to a job.
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  #27  
Old 27.11.2011, 17:47
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

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Before everyone goes OTT and gives advice which could cause the chap in question a load of trouble, I wish the OP would come back and give a little bit of accurate information. I'm assuming that a boss in Switzerland didn't actually say, 'sosacked', so it might be interesting to know exactly what he did say and to whom.
Can,t go into details on job but it,s sales related so basically they have to bring the bacon home, but if sales are down and no ones buyng it can,t be helped this is the reason they are fnishing him after 6 years
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  #28  
Old 27.11.2011, 17:51
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

Sorry also meant tosay understand this but find it difficult to understand them expecting him to train someone else. Oh by the way I just heard that the new guy who was taking his job has finished after one week said it was to hard .
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  #29  
Old 27.11.2011, 18:11
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

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Basically employees here have very little rights
Compared to where?

Certainly, they have far more than in the US.

Tom
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Old 27.11.2011, 18:19
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

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...True they can't teach you about every eventuality but they can equip you with finding ways of coping when disaster does strike. ...
If they're leaving under bad terms, they'll never do that, and it won't affect their reference, because it's exactly this kind of stuff that never gets written down. I'm talking specifically and only of IT troubleshooting.
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  #31  
Old 27.11.2011, 18:27
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

There sure seems to be an awful lot of sacking going on lately...

How badly do you want/need a good letter of recommendation?
What are the odds they're not going to give you a good one, no matter what you do?

If they're going to completely throw you under the bus and it won't matter, then go in and do a half ass job and refuse to train anyone how to do a job that, if you're good enough to train someone else to do, then you must have been good enough to keep doing it.

If you actually want or care about what recommendation they're going to give to your future employer, then continue to give 110% and wear a smile.

There sure seems to be an awful lot of sacking going on lately...
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  #32  
Old 27.11.2011, 19:56
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

This doesn´t make much sense to me. The company doesn´t value you enough to keep you on staff but they want you to train your replacement?
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  #33  
Old 27.11.2011, 20:02
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

It sucks - do you have any idea if and how much cheaper your replacement will be?
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  #34  
Old 27.11.2011, 20:24
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

My company doesn't care. I joined last year, and was put to sit with a girl to train me up. I just thought she was a bit moody, but after a couple of days she, spilt the beans, that she in fact been sacked. She was serving her 3 month notice period. It was hell, for both of us. The atmosphere was understandably awful, and I felt for her, it just doesn't seem logical to keep someone there for 3 months when they will be anti the company. They could potentially do the company a lot of damage...
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Old 27.11.2011, 23:11
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

Having experienced such redundancy and the purported reasons etc. for it myself first hand, it feels funny that we mention today's corporate world and words likes ethics, humane, fairness etc. in the same sentence.

Which world are you living in people?
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  #36  
Old 27.11.2011, 23:19
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

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Of course it is legal in Switzerland. Basically employees here have very little rights.
Wouldn't it also be fair to say that many employees are largely unaware of their rights..?

Employers will always get away with dubious ethics if nobody challenges them; they're running a business, not a charity and you can be sure they will know the rules. If you want a level playing field you should make an attempt to understand them too.
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Old 28.11.2011, 13:20
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

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Wouldn't it also be fair to say that many employees are largely unaware of their rights..?

Employers will always get away with dubious ethics if nobody challenges them; they're running a business, not a charity and you can be sure they will know the rules. If you want a level playing field you should make an attempt to understand them too.
My advice on this thread and the last post:

1) Being laid off sucks regardless of why/when/how

2) As long as they are still paying you, you have an obligation to recipricate (and bottom line is that it is in your interest to have them pay you!). But you must do (as always) what is in YOUR best interest. You need to maximize shareholder value... and you're business is "Me Inc" with you as a shareholder.

3) Reciprocate does not mean busting your balls for them, just "work to rule" (i.e. 9-17 as per contract and not 1 second longer)... if they want more from you, they'll have to compensate for it

4) The playing field is inevitably not level... but you have a different advantage: asymetrical warfare. You are just a pawn for the big company and quickly will become an annoying bureaucratic "to do" on an HR persons long task list... on the other hand, you can apply guerilla tactics (while still keeping a smile on your face and acting professionally) because you can effectively focus 100% on maximizing what you get out of this situation (while also looking for a new job): ask for everything to be officially documented / signed by HR; demand time to review it; have a lawyer look at it (this doesn't always make sense by the way, but can do if circumstances permit) and come with a million and one questions for you to ask (company knows the rules... well often HR actually doesn't and asking them questions allows you to drag it on and on and on and turn "facts" into "negotiable items"); use your notice period to ask the "painful" questions which exec's were hush hush about and don't want to be asked because it's embarassing; indicate to HR that you have to take afternoon off to sit with local employment agency to discuss the situation, etc.; plan in all your vacation days; etc. Simply put: become the expendable resource (as which they are treating you) which is focused on doing what's best for you and not what's best for the company.

In other words, try to make sure that YOU remain in control and in the driving seat rather than having some HR person eject you based on THEIR timeline, rules, etc.

Sorry - long rant

In my head I'm an extreme capitalist, but in my heart when I see it affecting individual people I tend to become pretty much a socialist
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  #38  
Old 28.11.2011, 14:05
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Re: So if someone who s your boss says sosacked but can you stay on for a month

You have to learn to be on the front foot.

I learned that things were being said, and rumours were starting, competition for promotion I guessed, as i was the nearest direct threat from the other seniors who joined.

I covered all bases, looked at the market, saw how employable I was, and then sat back.

As things got tense, and the workplace less enjoyable, I took the better offer, handed my notice in, which was only 1 month, offered to work 3 to bed in the new guy and I stay in control of the situation and improve my salary!

Boo-ya!
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