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  #21  
Old 07.12.2011, 15:14
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

I used to work in care homes both for elderly residents and residents with learning difficulies, I also used to home care, I started when i was 16 and finished when i was 19(due to having my first child) I loved every minute I worked, sure it was very hard work and it was a rubbish pay. The OP yeah sure may have a different attitude to it than I or you have but he has got a point. When i was working there was 5 carers on shift during the day for 50 residents that 10 residents each carer. We had to help wash, dress, feed and keep the residents happy plus make all the beds tidy up, make sure they had enough mental and physical stimulation ie bingo afternoons, chess things like that. We (by law) were not allowed to restrain our patients at all, we would have been hung drawn and quartered by the bosses if we done that. Falls happened we try our best but unfortunatly it happened. Some of out restidents had dementia and would just get up out of the chair and try and go for a walk, not realising that they were not as steady as they used to be, but the relatives understood, one on one care was imposible, you only get that if you wanted you relative cared for at home.

I loved it even thought you know that this is there "last stop" I always made sure they were happy till the end, lets face it we are all going to be there at some point and i wanted my patients to be treated with the same digity and care that i would want.

If I could I would be back working in care in a heart beat, it was a thankless job but knowing that you are making someones last moments happy and comfortable made it worth it for me.
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  #22  
Old 07.12.2011, 16:01
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

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Why does someone have to shoulder the blame when an old person dies in an old people's home. Why not just accept the fact that their time is up and it's time to go?
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As to the "stolen ring", many old people accuse people of stealing their possessions when they have mislaid them themselves and this is probably one of the earliest signs of dementia.
Why do people generalize? Why?

I was not trying to prove a point - as in nurses in elderly homes are thieves. I was sharing a sad occurence when my grandmother passed away. It was proven the ring was stolen, and it was found out 2 nurses that had been working in that home for 15 years had been stealing from the old people, accusing them of misplacing/losing said gold items. The case was delievered to the police, and though we didn't manage to recover the ring, the nurses were fired and ended up with a criminal record.

As for the pneumonia: it was not the time for my grandmother to die. The window SHOULD HAVE BEEN CLOSED as per house rules. They ended up with a malpractise case, because of negligence. My grandmother was not the only one to die due to that "little oopsie".



You were a good nurse? Good for you! Now stop generalizing! I know my good share of very good nurses. I shared my sad story to sympathize with Nil. It wasn't a teeny scream "the whole world is full of meanies trying to kill our grannies!"
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Old 07.12.2011, 16:06
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

Geriatrics is not the most popular field to work in. I think this is why the quality of care is not always what it should be. I also think geriatric nurses are not looked at as being as qualified as nurses on the hospital wards. It's so unfortunate because it is one of the most rewarding areas to work in. Hospital work is probably more interesting and fast-paced, but being able to influence an elderly person's quality of life over a longer period of time is much more fulfilling than jabbing people with needles and changing dressings.

Unfortunately, a lot of foreign qualified nurses can't get work in the hospitals where they'd prefer to be (atleast this is how it was 10 years ago. Correct me if I'm wrong!) so they end up working with the elderly where there are always vacant positions. I have witnessed such poor care given to dementia patients by nurses who are completely unmotivated in their jobs- it's disgusting and heartbreaking.

Anyways, getting back to the OP's complaint (and I am in no way suggesting that he is one of these crappy nurses). I don't know if you work at a private home or one run by the state. But, unless it's changed, your salary is based on years of experience and age. Unfortunately, the best way to get an increase in pay is to change jobs. Taking you on as a new employee, the employer has to check the pay scale according to these terms. As you were obviously younger and less experienced 8 years ago, you fell into a lower salary catagory. I don't believe there are any laws that an employer has to raise your salary every year, but if you start a new job, they need to start you off at the catagory you fall into. It might be worth checking out.
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Old 07.12.2011, 16:25
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

And what was the verdict in the malpractice case?
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Why do people generalize? Why?

I was not trying to prove a point - as in nurses in elderly homes are thieves. I was sharing a sad occurence when my grandmother passed away. It was proven the ring was stolen, and it was found out 2 nurses that had been working in that home for 15 years had been stealing from the old people, accusing them of misplacing/losing said gold items. The case was delievered to the police, and though we didn't manage to recover the ring, the nurses were fired and ended up with a criminal record.

As for the pneumonia: it was not the time for my grandmother to die. The window SHOULD HAVE BEEN CLOSED as per house rules. They ended up with a malpractise case, because of negligence. My grandmother was not the only one to die due to that "little oopsie".



You were a good nurse? Good for you! Now stop generalizing! I know my good share of very good nurses. I shared my sad story to sympathize with Nil. It wasn't a teeny scream "the whole world is full of meanies trying to kill our grannies!"
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Old 07.12.2011, 20:08
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

In my home country there is almost no thing like elderly home, and old people (my grandma included) rely on home-carer, i.e. live in nurses, foreign women from poorer countries. Over the years we have hired a few and our experience have been disastrous. They jump in a job just because there is a big request in the market, they have no experience, nor motivation and the money you pay them, 100% according to the rules, is never enough. The last one stole from my grandma all the food that was to be found in the house, including 2kg of delicacy cheese that a relative had brought her from her home town. Last week we gave up and my grandma had to leave her home and move with my mum, who will take care of her. On her last day of work, the nurse refused to give my grandma even a glas of water.
My comment on the OP
It's easy to jump in a job just because there is a big request, but you need more than money to motivate yourself. I think that its a big effort to take care of old people, and most of the time not the most pleasant job. I know from personal experience as I was lucky enough to spend with my grandpa the last two weeks of his life: a sad but great experience. Taking care of old people (or being a policeman, fireman, etc) is more than a job and gives you much more than money.
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Old 08.12.2011, 09:02
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

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. When i was working there was 5 carers on shift during the day for 50 residents that 10 residents each carer. We had to help wash, dress, feed and keep the residents happy plus make all the beds tidy up, make sure they had enough mental and physical stimulation ie bingo afternoons, chess things like that.
In a local home nearby, there are 2 carers for 90 residents on a night shift. Should be illegal.
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Old 08.12.2011, 09:31
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

Maybe you are referring to where I work-we have 2 carers doing night work for 120 people. And one year ago there was only ONE. They decided to change to 2 carer's after years of complaints. And ( some ) people think we have it easy!!
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In a local home nearby, there are 2 carers for 90 residents on a night shift. Should be illegal.
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Old 08.12.2011, 09:50
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

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Maybe you are referring to where I work-we have 2 carers doing night work for 120 people. And one year ago there was only ONE. They decided to change to 2 carer's after years of complaints. And ( some ) people think we have it easy!!
I dont know anyone you think that. But one thing is for sure, this is totally inacceptable and something should be done about it. The direction is putting too much stress on the carers and put the residents at risk.
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Old 08.12.2011, 10:06
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

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In a local home nearby, there are 2 carers for 90 residents on a night shift. Should be illegal.
Yes on the night shift the staff is usually halfed, 90 residents for 2 carers is far to much tho, we had 3 carers for 50 on a night shift. Between the hours of 11 and 4 were quite quiet and form 4 to 8 was hectic as that is when they started to wake up and need us. We had to sort the medicine out for the morning and do rounds every 2 hours to make sure everyone was ok, plus if there had been a delivery of medicines sort that out as well. so we never sat down, we were allowed to have a 1 hour break between 12 and 3 and had to take it in turnes so that there was always 2 staff on the floor.
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Old 08.12.2011, 12:30
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

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Maybe you are referring to where I work-we have 2 carers doing night work for 120 people. And one year ago there was only ONE. They decided to change to 2 carer's after years of complaints. And ( some ) people think we have it easy!!
Oh my God.... Home should be closed immediately. Worker's rights are practically non-existent in Switzerland
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Old 08.12.2011, 12:45
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

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Why do people generalize? Why?

I was not trying to prove a point - as in nurses in elderly homes are thieves. I was sharing a sad occurence when my grandmother passed away. It was proven the ring was stolen, and it was found out 2 nurses that had been working in that home for 15 years had been stealing from the old people, accusing them of misplacing/losing said gold items. The case was delievered to the police, and though we didn't manage to recover the ring, the nurses were fired and ended up with a criminal record.

As for the pneumonia: it was not the time for my grandmother to die. The window SHOULD HAVE BEEN CLOSED as per house rules. They ended up with a malpractise case, because of negligence. My grandmother was not the only one to die due to that "little oopsie".



You were a good nurse? Good for you! Now stop generalizing! I know my good share of very good nurses. I shared my sad story to sympathize with Nil. It wasn't a teeny scream "the whole world is full of meanies trying to kill our grannies!"
Who's generalizing then, who? I wasn't. My question was directed at you.

Am still doubtful as to whether an open window can cause pneumonia. This would be very difficult to prove.

Sorry if I sound unsympathetic but obviously your grandmother's time WAS up otherwise she wouldn't have contracted pneumonia even if the window was open.

And what do people hope to gain by presenting a malpractise case? Compensation?

Of course there are cases where carers have stolen and homes DO find it difficult to find personnel with the right attitude, I agree. But, and this is also a well known fact, patients with dementia very often accuse carers, other patients etc. of stealing their goodies and sometimes it's difficult to prove/disprove. Best not to have vaulables in a home or have them locked away in the safe.
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Old 08.12.2011, 13:01
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

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To be honest, i wouldnt be willing to increase your wage with that attitude!

You are complaining about giving more results???? You are responsible for the health and wellbeing of the people you care for and should always be giving 100% or more when it comes to results

If nursing is not a job that is in your heart then get out and get another job, i would be sick if i had a mother or grandmother in your care

If your wage is not on a par with other nurses then complain to you boss, then your union. If it is then i would suggest you dont come on here badmouthing a position which could be a very touchy subject for a lot of people
With all the respect of the world you should not judged, you do not have idea what nurses have to do in CH specially in the elderly homes, is a very hard job and requires a lot of passion and a many responsabilities.

Have you ever clean a bottom and be hitting by a crazy person? have you ever been attached from families who want everything plus a psychiatric people for 9 hours 5 days a week!!! asking you where they are more than 30 times in an hour!!
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Old 08.12.2011, 13:09
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

Wow, this thread has certainly got lots of people's hackles up I can see the situation from both sides. Working in a nursing home for a few years, and seeing my grandad in one.

I think if the OP had perhaps toned down his attitude in his first post, it would not have raised so many backs up. Omtatsat, are you aware that the way you write you posts comes across as very blunt? The abrupt manner of your posts is making us wonder if this is how you are in your workplace.

Also, there has been some good advice offered to you also by some members, but you haven't even thanked them for it. After getting some feedback from your question, I think it would be nice to thank them for responding to your situation.
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Old 08.12.2011, 13:34
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

Enaj, without trying to be blunt or rude, I am not a "Hello!" magazine to feed people's curiosity with details of my private life. As I said, I shared my sad story to sympathize with someone else, not to write a soap-opera.

I have no reason to add details to scrutinizing eyes of people who have no reason to scrutinize a case that has been properly taken care of.

Malpractice cases are important. I didn't get any monetary compensation, if that's what you have in mind. I lost my grandmother. Nothing will bring her back.

The proven negligence of the nurses that were on duty, and the elderly home for not enforcing the state nursing rules and their own rules, lead to this specific elderly home being scrutinized by the proper authorities to check if things were being properly done. They weren't.

They had to change their ways and start treating their patients more as human beings and less as a cheap way to get some money. They had to go through tough inspections and prove for a long period of time they had finally corrected themselves. I like to imagine people that came to this home after my grandmother and other ladies in her room died had a better end of life. That's what the malpractice is good for - to correct mistakes and help future patients. Not to go make some dead person family rich.


I have, in no point, mistreated nurses in my posts. I have never in my posts generalized that nurses are thieves, incompetent or evil. I understand you might feel compeled to defend a job you once did, but you really have to stop reading stuff in between the lines when there is nothing there to read.

The constant idea in the English Forum that people are out to get you, your money, your honour and your dignity makes my will to help anyone find their life in Switzerland a little bit easier cease to exist.
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  #35  
Old 08.12.2011, 15:23
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

Yes maybe that's true. Maybe a little too direct. But the rash accusations by a couple of posts regarding my attitude was completely unjustified-that was more like an attack. I was simply presenting the facts of my wages at the moment and back in 2003 and I think I am justified in finding that the increase in wages compared to the increase in living costs is completely out of proportion.
And the fact that we are pushed to do more for no compensation is also a fact. Im not the only one in this situation.

And I do thank those OP's that shed some light on the situation as it is today and the advice given.


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Wow, this thread has certainly got lots of people's hackles up I can see the situation from both sides. Working in a nursing home for a few years, and seeing my grandad in one.

I think if the OP had perhaps toned down his attitude in his first post, it would not have raised so many backs up. Omtatsat, are you aware that the way you write you posts comes across as very blunt? The abrupt manner of your posts is making us wonder if this is how you are in your workplace.

Also, there has been some good advice offered to you also by some members, but you haven't even thanked them for it. After getting some feedback from your question, I think it would be nice to thank them for responding to your situation.
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Old 08.12.2011, 15:41
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

Why is 73.000 far too little to live in Zurich for one person, but nearly 20.000 less perfectly fine and 'put up or shut up?' And not an ancillary, but a fully qualified person. I've never worked in an OAP home, I just couldn't. How many of those who have pounced on the OP have had any experience of the job? Perhaps few.
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Old 08.12.2011, 15:43
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

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In a local home nearby, there are 2 carers for 90 residents on a night shift. Should be illegal.
Totally agreed. Certainly not the staff's fault I am sure. They had 2 on duty in my parents OAP home for 11 residents.
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Old 09.12.2011, 13:34
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

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Absolute luxury
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Old 09.12.2011, 14:03
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

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Enaj, without trying to be blunt or rude, I am not a "Hello!" magazine to feed people's curiosity with details of my private life. As I said, I shared my sad story to sympathize with someone else, not to write a soap-opera.

I have no reason to add details to scrutinizing eyes of people who have no reason to scrutinize a case that has been properly taken care of.

Malpractice cases are important. I didn't get any monetary compensation, if that's what you have in mind. I lost my grandmother. Nothing will bring her back.

The proven negligence of the nurses that were on duty, and the elderly home for not enforcing the state nursing rules and their own rules, lead to this specific elderly home being scrutinized by the proper authorities to check if things were being properly done. They weren't.

They had to change their ways and start treating their patients more as human beings and less as a cheap way to get some money. They had to go through tough inspections and prove for a long period of time they had finally corrected themselves. I like to imagine people that came to this home after my grandmother and other ladies in her room died had a better end of life. That's what the malpractice is good for - to correct mistakes and help future patients. Not to go make some dead person family rich.


I have, in no point, mistreated nurses in my posts. I have never in my posts generalized that nurses are thieves, incompetent or evil. I understand you might feel compeled to defend a job you once did, but you really have to stop reading stuff in between the lines when there is nothing there to read.

The constant idea in the English Forum that people are out to get you, your money, your honour and your dignity makes my will to help anyone find their life in Switzerland a little bit easier cease to exist.
Don't know what a Hello magazine is and am totally disinterested in your personal life so your comments were fully unnecessary.

If your motivation in making malpractice complaint was solely to get things changed in the home then I think it was justifiable. Maybe it would be a good idea if someone would make a complaint about the home where the Op is working as things obviously need changing there. Pressure often comes from the management and those at the "top of the tree" in the homes and results in dissatisfaction in the personnel which shows itself in the standard of care to the residents.

About the pneumonia though: As pneumonia is either a bacterial, viral or fungal infection of the lungs which manifests itself when resistance is low, don't see how an open window can be responsible for causing that unless it can be proved that the infection flew in through the open window. Don't think the opening or closing of windows can be regulated as common sense should prevail i.e., don't open the window if a storm is brewing but in the middle of summer on a hot, humid day - then OK.

Possibly/probably there were other reasons for your complaint but it came across as if you think the sole reason for your grandmother's death was the open window causing pneumonia which just doesn't ring true.
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Old 09.12.2011, 15:51
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Re: Wages as Qualified Nurse!

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About the pneumonia though: As pneumonia is either a bacterial, viral or fungal infection of the lungs which manifests itself when resistance is low, don't see how an open window can be responsible for causing that unless it can be proved that the infection flew in through the open window. Don't think the opening or closing of windows can be regulated as common sense should prevail i.e., don't open the window if a storm is brewing but in the middle of summer on a hot, humid day - then OK.
I'm surprise you don't understand how an elder person being left in the cold too long can lead to pneumonia.

Sure, the cold did not "cause the pneumonia". But being left in the cold for too long (i imagine i wasn't 5-10 minutes) likely lowered her already delicate immune system even more to the point that she couldn't fight the virus/ bacteria. This could easily have been avoided by not having the window open too long in cold/wet weather.

I guess if the nurses at the retirement home thought the same as you we can see why they didn't bother to close the window.

A quick internet search gave me this which says it better than I can:
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"So no, cold weather does not give you an infection, but being exposed to cold can weaken an individual and render them more prone to infection. For those already suffering from respiratory complications, almost any adverse weather conditions (cold or hot) can lead to a substantially increased likelihood of infection. The elderly and infirm are far more likely to succumb to illness in adverse weather conditions also, though pneumonia can affect anybody, regardless of age."
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