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Old 12.12.2011, 08:47
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Re: Starting over in Switzerland from US

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Unfortunately you diverted from the main point of what I was saying by your (completely uncalled-for) characterisation of my post as nay-saying.

The point is that one needs to know as much as possible in advance.

A Swiss spouse is a great advantage for making friends, learning the language, and knowing one's way around. It's the stuff that seems obvious to the spouse that the OP doesn't know that will cause more angst.
Good points! It will also cause a lot of angst when your Swiss spouse gets tired of "handling everything", and also, the way your Swiss spouse will feel pressured to be "more Swiss" than they want to be, but you, as the American, get the free pass to "be yourself", and get all of the sympathy! All of your wife's Swiss friends, acquaintances, etc, will always ask "How is your husband doing?" and she'll be thinking "Why doesn't anybody ask how _I_ am doing??".

Dan
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Old 12.12.2011, 22:50
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Re: Starting over in Switzerland from US

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Good points! It will also cause a lot of angst when your Swiss spouse gets tired of "handling everything", and also, the way your Swiss spouse will feel pressured to be "more Swiss" than they want to be, but you, as the American, get the free pass to "be yourself", and get all of the sympathy! All of your wife's Swiss friends, acquaintances, etc, will always ask "How is your husband doing?" and she'll be thinking "Why doesn't anybody ask how _I_ am doing??".

Dan
Nicely put, Dan.
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Old 12.12.2011, 23:26
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Thanks .
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Old 13.12.2011, 01:18
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Re: Starting over in Switzerland from US

Very well said Dan and I agree 100%. (sorry don't know how to thank for a post yet) As we arrived in August after living in USA for the last 7 years and even after fighting the move to no end it is finally now that my Swiss husband realizes how great we had it in the USA. Of course he still wants his Swiss company job over his USA job and images our children's childhood could be very similar to his 35 some years ago but he didn't realize what taking on running a household w/out much help from a non German speaking American wife who does life way different than the Swiss would be like I guess. He knows I would leave in a heart beat and now the trouble would be the cost of doing it all over again and the change for the kids once again. There are several benefits to a wonderful life here if it's for your taste so to each is own and wishing everyone the best today and always.
Thanks of the info in our post about being able to apply for Swiss Citizenship after 6 years of marriage as I had no idea. Believe it or not but my Swiss husband is not a good resource of how things work either so I do most of the digging to find things out for myself.
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Old 13.12.2011, 01:20
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Re: Starting over in Switzerland from US

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Thanks for your advice. I will have a job waiting for me as a landscaper working for my father in law. I plan on doing that as I become fluent. I just don't want to lock myself in as a grunt.....
Sometimes I wish I was a "grunt"...
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Old 14.12.2011, 08:25
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Hi Cincy,

Thanks and you're welcome. I know how to thank but don't nearly as much as I'd like since the app I use on my iPhone to access the forum doesn't access most of the 'extra' functions.

Well I hope your adjustment gets better and it will. Language is really, really, the key and first step. Depending on your situation, becoming 'Swiss' may help you feel more 'Swiss', and you'll also feel a bit more obligation to get better integrated. It doesn't sound like you've been here so long yet. We've 'only' been here 3 1/2 years and it's getting better. I try to remind my wife that life can also be much worse and that we are very lucky to have the opportunity to even try this. We have friends who are unemployed so long that their unemployment insurance has run out and they don't have next month's rent.

Dan
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Old 14.12.2011, 08:28
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Sometimes I wish I was a "grunt"...
It would definitely be a great way to learn more Swiss German too!

Dan
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Old 14.12.2011, 08:46
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Re: Starting over in Switzerland from US

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so to each is own and wishing everyone the best today and always.
Thanks of the info in our post about being able to apply for Swiss Citizenship after 6 years of marriage as I had no idea. Believe it or not but my Swiss husband is not a good resource of how things work either so I do most of the digging to find things out for myself.
I thought facilitated naturalisation was 3 years of marriage with 5 years of residency in Switzerland with the added caveat of requiring X number of years in the Gemeinde/Canton (I believe Baselland is 3 years).

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/...uergerung.html


Ah I see the six years in there... if you were living abroad... It's hard to believe they'd make it that easy -- "Swiss by marriage without residency" -- when everyone else has to jump through hoops.
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Old 14.12.2011, 09:19
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Re: Starting over in Switzerland from US

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I thought facilitated naturalisation was 3 years of marriage with 5 years of residency in Switzerland with the added caveat of requiring X number of years in the Gemeinde/Canton (I believe Baselland is 3 years).

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/...uergerung.html


Ah I see the six years in there... if you were living abroad... It's hard to believe they'd make it that easy -- "Swiss by marriage without residency" -- when everyone else has to jump through hoops.
Actually, it's not "without residency", but rather that it's not required.

Anyway, I used this one:

"1. Article 27 Naturalization Act
The foreign spouse of a Swiss national who has lived in Switzerland for at least five years, has lived here for one year, and has lived in conjugal community with the Swiss spouse for three years."

So, no cantonal requirement residency, it is purely federal (though you get the attinenza of the spouse, not where you live).

Tom
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Old 14.12.2011, 09:33
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Actually, it's not "without residency", but rather that it's not required.

Anyway, I used this one:

"1. Article 27 Naturalization Act
The foreign spouse of a Swiss national who has lived in Switzerland for at least five years, has lived here for one year, and has lived in conjugal community with the Swiss spouse for three years."

So, no cantonal requirement residency, it is purely federal (though you get the attinenza of the spouse, not where you live).

Tom
I also found it hard to believe it was that easy, and I almost feel a bit embarrassed to mention it to Swiss that I work with. Especially those who were born and raised here, yet are not 'Swiss' (by their own choice in some cases). My wife applied for US citizenship and they even asked for proof of residency there at the 'swearing in' ceremony which is when everything is already done. When we lived in California there were spouses of Swiss, whom I only met 'online' but they had claimed to have done it. I can probably even find a link to that 'conversation'.

I wonder if my citizenship process was also a bit easier because I fell into that category. But I had been here longer than a year when applying, so maybe not.

Dan
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Old 14.12.2011, 09:51
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Re: Starting over in Switzerland from US

"Until acclimated and fluent"

There's a great thread called something like: "The truth about learning German".

A great read and very true.

Basically - everyone (including me) vastly underestimates the difficulty of learning a language. However, everyone thinks that they can learn "intensively" and be fluent in a year. Not a snowball's chance in hell.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth. Feel free to ignore or otherwise

Good luck though.
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Old 14.12.2011, 09:57
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Re: Starting over in Switzerland from US

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everyone thinks that they can learn "intensively" and be fluent in a year. Not a snowball's chance in hell
It depends.

That's how I learned French.

BUT, I was 15-16, and attended a normal French school full time, and had extra French classes at school, etc., and had studied some basic French over the summer before going there (but had never studied it at school before).

Tom
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Old 14.12.2011, 10:49
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Re: Starting over in Switzerland from US

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Hi Wisco,

My situation has some similarities to yours. I'm also American and married to a Swiss native. We moved here after being in the US together for 8 years.

I don't know how long you've been married, but you might consider applying for Swiss citizenship. If you've been married longer than 6 years, you can apply without having lived here. It could make finding jobs easier in some cases, but since you can get a work permit anyway, to most companies that might want you, it shouldn't matter at all.

This is also a good Yahoo group for foreign spouses of Swiss:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Foreig...wissNationals/

I would also not forget about your wife and the adjustment she will have to go through. Everyone's situation is different, but my wife is Swiss, grew up here, and yet would agree with much of what the "nay-sayers" are saying on here. If I told her we had to move back to California, she would probably have her bags packed before I finished the sentence.

As others have said, I would definitely start learning German, after 3 years of that, and being frustrated that you feel more at home in Germany than here, you can then start on the "local language".

I wish you the best in figuring out your situation. You'll learn something, no matter what happens.

Dan
Well, your wife would be better off letting you finish the sentence..LOL. California has no money, its bankrupt. Everyone wants to leave, not stay! Besides its not known as California anymore...the new unofficial name is Mexifornia. The Mexicans are taking over California, Texas and Florida, and bits and pieces of a few other Southern states. Lets put it this way, unless you speak Spanish, you may have a hard time finding employment there. At this moment of US turmoil, moving somewhere else until the tides turn, if it does, is the best bet. Its ugly, and its getting worse...
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  #34  
Old 14.12.2011, 10:57
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Re: Starting over in Switzerland from US

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Lets put it this way, unless you speak Spanish, you may have a hard time finding employment there.

Salt. Large grain of. 3x per day until the feeling passes.
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Old 14.12.2011, 10:59
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Re: Starting over in Switzerland from US

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Good points! It will also cause a lot of angst when your Swiss spouse gets tired of "handling everything", and also, the way your Swiss spouse will feel pressured to be "more Swiss" than they want to be, but you, as the American, get the free pass to "be yourself", and get all of the sympathy! All of your wife's Swiss friends, acquaintances, etc, will always ask "How is your husband doing?" and she'll be thinking "Why doesn't anybody ask how _I_ am doing??".

Dan
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Very well said Dan and I agree 100%. (sorry don't know how to thank for a post yet) As we arrived in August after living in USA for the last 7 years and even after fighting the move to no end it is finally now that my Swiss husband realizes how great we had it in the USA. Of course he still wants his Swiss company job over his USA job and images our children's childhood could be very similar to his 35 some years ago but he didn't realize what taking on running a household w/out much help from a non German speaking American wife who does life way different than the Swiss would be like I guess. He knows I would leave in a heart beat and now the trouble would be the cost of doing it all over again and the change for the kids once again. There are several benefits to a wonderful life here if it's for your taste so to each is own and wishing everyone the best today and always.
Thanks of the info in our post about being able to apply for Swiss Citizenship after 6 years of marriage as I had no idea. Believe it or not but my Swiss husband is not a good resource of how things work either so I do most of the digging to find things out for myself.
Sorry...sounds pretty selfish to me. Pettiness is what ruins relationships. Sometimes people coming to another country with their spouses, for example Switzerland, don't realize how rude and selfish they're being. They talk bad about their spouse's home country in their face, and to their friends as a form of punishment probably. They don't put in the effort to really make their "spouse from the resident country" comfortable either. They automaticaly just "dump themselves" on the spouse. Not thinking of "how they can help them." And it goes deeper than just learning the language, and buying groceries. It's being aware of the other person's feelings, and having the intelligence to understand that they may be sensitive to the trailing spouse's arrogant disregard.
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Old 14.12.2011, 11:38
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Re: Starting over in Switzerland from US

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The Mexicans are taking over California, Texas and Florida, and bits and pieces of a few other Southern states. Lets put it this way, unless you speak Spanish, you may have a hard time finding employment there.
There isn't a big enough for this post, sorry. The Mexicans never went anywhere, they've been in California and Texas since before they were California and Texas, and a lack of Spanish fluency will in no way negatively impact employment prospects for the vast majority of professions. (Finding a job in the current economy is an entirely different story). Where people come up with shit like this I have no idea.

OP, do what you want and take everything you read here with a grain of salt. It might work out, it might not, the only thing I can suggest is not to spend too much time on this forum listening to tired generalizations about Swiss people and life in Switzerland, and form your own experiences and opinions. Negativity breeds negativity, and there's plenty of people who moved here and are thriving and happy, they just have better stuff to do than spend 3 or 4 hours a day on the internet complaining about everything.
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Old 14.12.2011, 13:17
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Sorry...sounds pretty selfish to me. Pettiness is what ruins relationships. Sometimes people coming to another country with their spouses, for example Switzerland, don't realize how rude and selfish they're being. They talk bad about their spouse's home country in their face, and to their friends as a form of punishment probably. They don't put in the effort to really make their "spouse from the resident country" comfortable either. They automaticaly just "dump themselves" on the spouse. Not thinking of "how they can help them." And it goes deeper than just learning the language, and buying groceries. It's being aware of the other person's feelings, and having the intelligence to understand that they may be sensitive to the trailing spouse's arrogant disregard.
I know what you mean, being newly Swiss I'm offended by my wife bad mouthing Switzerland in front of me all the time.

California was very good to me. It was the only place I've been where I had 6 interviews and 5 job offers after one weekend. But I'm in high tech and that was in 2000. I can say hello and goodbye in Spanish do maybe that helped? If you want I can give you a full report since we are going for 5 weeks soon. Then you can report some truth instead of BS.

Sorry, off topic but you don't seem to have or spread much 'joy'? Maybe you should choose another username?

Dan
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Old 14.12.2011, 15:17
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Re: Starting over in Switzerland from US

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I thought facilitated naturalisation was 3 years of marriage with 5 years of residency in Switzerland with the added caveat of requiring X number of years in the Gemeinde/Canton (I believe Baselland is 3 years).

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/...uergerung.html


Ah I see the six years in there... if you were living abroad... It's hard to believe they'd make it that easy -- "Swiss by marriage without residency" -- when everyone else has to jump through hoops.
It used to be ever easier for women. Marry a Swiss man & it was automatic. I forgot what year it changed, in the 80s or 90s. That's how my MIL became Swiss. "I do" and poof she was married & Swiss! Now she's more Swiss than the Swiss.
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Old 14.12.2011, 15:30
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Re: Starting over in Switzerland from US

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There isn't a big enough for this post, sorry. The Mexicans never went anywhere, they've been in California and Texas since before they were California and Texas, and a lack of Spanish fluency will in no way negatively impact employment prospects for the vast majority of professions. (Finding a job in the current economy is an entirely different story). Where people come up with shit like this I have no idea.

OP, do what you want and take everything you read here with a grain of salt. It might work out, it might not, the only thing I can suggest is not to spend too much time on this forum listening to tired generalizations about Swiss people and life in Switzerland, and form your own experiences and opinions. Negativity breeds negativity, and there's plenty of people who moved here and are thriving and happy, they just have better stuff to do than spend 3 or 4 hours a day on the internet complaining about everything.
Yeah, this post just shows how much out-of-touch you, and many others are about what's "really" happening in the USA. The Mexican population has quadrupled in California within the last few years. And don't turn my post around to say I have something against Mexicans. The point is that the whole scope of US is changing as Mexicans are becoming the largest minority, and those coming into the US now are not speaking the language, sounds familiar?, and say that they "want to take back the land US took from them." and its working too!..LOL In some parts of Southern USA, Spanish is required in some professions to get a job, for instance a person working at a call center or a telemarketer. And thanks for confirming what I've written many times "there are plenty of people who come to Switzerland and thrive." In this sentence alone, there's no reason for the negativity that Expats spew to others concerning Switzerland because many don't understand the elements of "refinement." Although, no place is perfect, but in Switzerland you can get to a level to live nearly a perfect life in most areas. There's no reason for the OP not to give Switzerland a try, then he can judge for himself. This forum is the last place anyone should come to when they want to make a move to Switzerland. It would be best for them to search out legitimate information about the country through official sites and take it from there. And please, I hope the poor things don't run to the Expat community when they come to the country, they'll be done for by the time the Expats get through with them. A sad lot really...not all but most

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I know what you mean, being newly Swiss I'm offended by my wife bad mouthing Switzerland in front of me all the time.

California was very good to me. It was the only place I've been where I had 6 interviews and 5 job offers after one weekend. But I'm in high tech and that was in 2000. I can say hello and goodbye in Spanish do maybe that helped? If you want I can give you a full report since we are going for 5 weeks soon. Then you can report some truth instead of BS.

Sorry, off topic but you don't seem to have or spread much 'joy'? Maybe you should choose another username?

Dan
You can call my writings BS if you want, but 2000 has nothing to do with 2011, soon to be 2012. The scope has changed dramatically. Since US has had a dramatic increase in gun violence; a guy was in Hollywood at an intersection shooting randomly into passing cars, and that's just a peek at what's been happening; you'd better take your bullet proof vest...LOL No US city made it into the top 10, or 20 as far as the best cities in the world to live. Switzerland has 4 in that category. USA life expectancy is on par with that of 3rd world countries. And the only thing that's holding the US up now is the dollar. Once Asia creates their own currency, and they will, and the dollar is no longer the currency of choice for investments etc...then the rug will fall from under America. I love America, but its sad in deed to see the direction its going in. For a number of reasons, not just because of the Mexican situation. More people living outside the country are giving up their US citizenship because of FATCA, and also because there's no advantage to being a US citizen, according to them. Its becoming a burden! So anyone that wants to take a chance at living in another country outside of USA, should certainly do so if its feasible. They can always return...

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Old 14.12.2011, 15:39
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Re: Starting over in Switzerland from US

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It used to be ever easier for women. Marry a Swiss man & it was automatic. I forgot what year it changed, in the 80s or 90s. That's how my MIL became Swiss. "I do" and poof she was married & Swiss! Now she's more Swiss than the Swiss.
It was early '90s as I recall, otherwise I would have done it sooner (I applied in '95, got it in '97). A guy I met at a New Year's party told me about the new law (he had just done it).

Tom
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