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Old 10.01.2012, 21:08
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What is a 'detailed CV?'

Hello,

Apologies if this has been asked before... the search engine will not include the term 'CV' in a search!

I'm applying for an assistants role in a further educational establishment (Swiss), and the advert says I need to provide a 'detailed' CV.

Any idea what 'detailed' means? I was told CVs here should only run to one side of A4 and are therefore by nature quite brief...

I also have to provide a letter of motivation, work certificates and diplomas.

The position looks really interesting and I'm running out of time (closing date is Sunday by post) - not my fault as I e-mailed for more information but the establishment was closed for Christmas, so speedy responses would be appreciated. I don't want to shoot myself in the foot by not including a detailed enough CV and getting my application thrown in the bin!

Thanks in advance...
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Old 10.01.2012, 21:09
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

I think it means a gapless CV ( Lückenloser Lebenslauf in DE or curriculum vitae complet in FR ).

All periods accounted for including but not limited to all schools, work activities, internships, volunteer work, periods of unemployment, prison etc.
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Old 10.01.2012, 21:38
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

As jrspet said... It is normal in CH to have a 4-page long CV. You can expand on the job descriptions, voluntary work, education and further education, affiliations, hobbies, personal data, like nationality, type of permit. Basically, anything you have done in your life that might have contributed for your personal development. I would advise you to include an executive summary and specialties on the front page. HR has to sort out too many CVs and need to see the keywords really fast. If you need inspiration, check Europass is a good muse. But, it has its limitations

Also, do not forget to include recommendation letters and copies of diplomas (double check for picture. It could well be it is requested). If don't have them, just add at the end of the cv something like "references and diplomas available upon request".

Hope this helps and good luck with your application.
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Old 10.01.2012, 22:17
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

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Also, do not forget to include recommendation letters and copies of diplomas (double check for picture. It could well be it is requested). If don't have them, just add at the end of the cv something like "references and diplomas available upon request".
HI, are you saying one should include copies of one's education certificates when applying for a position?

I've not applied for position in Switzerland before so this is all new to me, obviously in UK one did not at the initially application level, but if that is the case here, then will do. thanks
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Old 10.01.2012, 22:19
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

Some tips:

http://www.manpower.ch/en/advice/the...e-striking-cv/

Useful PDF in DE
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what-detailed-cv-careerhbook.jpg  
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Old 10.01.2012, 22:21
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

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HI, are you saying one should include copies of one's education certificates when applying for a position?
Yes, that is what they mean by detailed CV or complete dossier. Recruiters also expect you to send letters of recommendation and references.
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Old 10.01.2012, 22:22
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

Thanks everyone... I think I'll expand on my CV then, especially as it says "curriculum vitae détaillé".

Now, I haven't been in prison... but I have been in psychiatric hospital. For extended periods of time. Do I have to put that down if this is a detailed CV...
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Old 10.01.2012, 22:36
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

That would be a big black mark.

Didn't you go to Thailand and to India for extended holidays? Many Swiss used to resign and take off for 5 or 6 months of unpaid holidays.
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Old 10.01.2012, 23:14
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

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Thanks everyone... I think I'll expand on my CV then, especially as it says "curriculum vitae détaillé".

Now, I haven't been in prison... but I have been in psychiatric hospital. For extended periods of time. Do I have to put that down if this is a detailed CV...
No. But as Sbrinz said, you should explain gaps in your CV if they are longer than a few (6ish) months. Traveling can be one explanation. Other possible ones are "reorientation" (I don't have a good english translation, sth. like you needed time to find out what job you wanted to do in the future) or a personal project or helping a relative etc.
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Old 10.01.2012, 23:29
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

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Yes, that is what they mean by detailed CV or complete dossier. Recruiters also expect you to send letters of recommendation and references.
Thanks, WOW, had to take a deep breath after reading your response. Have been used of the UK where certicates are either produced at interview or at job offer. It has cheesed me off in the UK as letters of recommendation have not been accepted in recent years, a couple of decades, so now I can use them again. References I would give entire business contact details of my Referees covering the last 15 to 25 Years, trust that would be acceptable.

Did you hear about the person who sent a 287 page application or was it more. they attached all their certicates from age 4, maybe also certificates of children ...........
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Old 11.01.2012, 00:37
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

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Did you hear about the person who sent a 287 page application or was it more. they attached all their certicates from age 4, maybe also certificates of children ...........
No - but I can believe this as being possible. I got once a recruiter asking for my high school certificates and the the translated transcripts of my degrees. I told him to go check the rain in plains of the wide Castilian country side, and volunteered the last copy of my PhD book. He didn't accept it and I redraw my application. Seriously - if he was having troubles believing I went to high school it was already a sign my application wouldn't fly very far.
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Old 11.01.2012, 23:30
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

Thanks everyone...

I think I managed to produce something that hopefully looked respectable - thanks Lucy for the tip about having a summary on the front page!

Thankfully although I've been ill-and-unemployed since late 2009 my work certificate from my last employer says I left in March 2010 (must be due to the official notice period as they didn't pay me that long... I wasn't really noticing things much at the time so I'm not sure). I have several voluntary jobs which I started in summer 2009 and still do so that means there aren't 'technically' any gaps. Hopefully that'll be good enough.

What on earth do people who've taken time out to raise a family do?

Certificates were a nightmare to photocopy, I have five just for my teaching qualification!

One of my social workers said I shouldn't mention having been ill at interview, if I get that far, and gave me a book which actually advocates lying if asked! I'm not happy about that, as I don't think it gives the best impression should if ever come out...
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Old 12.01.2012, 00:05
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

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Thanks everyone...

I think I managed to produce something that hopefully looked respectable - thanks Lucy for the tip about having a summary on the front page!

Thankfully although I've been ill-and-unemployed since late 2009 my work certificate from my last employer says I left in March 2010 (must be due to the official notice period as they didn't pay me that long... I wasn't really noticing things much at the time so I'm not sure). I have several voluntary jobs which I started in summer 2009 and still do so that means there aren't 'technically' any gaps. Hopefully that'll be good enough.

What on earth do people who've taken time out to raise a family do?

Certificates were a nightmare to photocopy, I have five just for my teaching qualification!

One of my social workers said I shouldn't mention having been ill at interview, if I get that far, and gave me a book which actually advocates lying if asked! I'm not happy about that, as I don't think it gives the best impression should if ever come out...
Well, i'm not to sure about flat out lies either, considering that you want to have a long-term relationship with your employer. But it seems to me that if you play it down a bit ("going through a rough patch") and talk about the voluntary jobs, your chances should not be intact.

In any case, I wish you the best of luck.
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Old 12.01.2012, 15:14
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

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Well, i'm not to sure about flat out lies either, considering that you want to have a long-term relationship with your employer. But it seems to me that if you play it down a bit ("going through a rough patch") and talk about the voluntary jobs, your chances should not be intact.

In any case, I wish you the best of luck.
Good advice here - no flat out lying but unless they ask you directly about illness then you are not obliged to give them the information. In HR speak this period is called a "Sabitical" during which time you did xyz, do not talk about travel unless you have have done it, Swiss are well travelled and it could come back to bite you on the butt!!
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Old 12.01.2012, 18:06
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

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Well, i'm not to sure about flat out lies either, considering that you want to have a long-term relationship with your employer. But it seems to me that if you play it down a bit ("going through a rough patch") and talk about the voluntary jobs, your chances should not be intact.

In any case, I wish you the best of luck.
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Good advice here - no flat out lying but unless they ask you directly about illness then you are not obliged to give them the information. In HR speak this period is called a "Sabitical" during which time you did xyz, do not talk about travel unless you have have done it, Swiss are well travelled and it could come back to bite you on the butt!!
I have no intention of lying, as (as Sam says) it seems to me, quite apart from the moral issue, it could really scupper a relationship with an employer. Also doesn't seem to be very wise in my case as at some point in the process I'm going to have to bring up the fact that I'm starting a therapy group this week that will meet weekly for the next 20 or so weeks!

I was more surprised to be told in an official publication that a) I can lie and b) I can't be sacked for lying (unless the illness would prevent me from doing the role applied for and I lie about it). Very different from the UK, where I would have to disclose the depression as a 'disability', but get special treatment because of that. Not that I'm complaining. It's rather disheartening to realise at interview that you only got asked to interview so the prospective employer can say they are an equal opportunities employer, and that actually you were never really in the running. I'd much rather be taken on my merits. But it takes some getting used to.

I got an e-mail from the HR assistant I had to send the application to this morning, saying she'd sent it on to the relevant manager. Is this a good sign? I'm guessing HR do some kind of initial sorting process before they pass applications on, and that the fact that my dossier has been passed on means I passed that initial test? (Basing this assumption on the fact that otherwise I'd have been told to send my application directly to the manager in question.)

(Can you tell I'm rather new to this... )

Last edited by Vlh22; 12.01.2012 at 18:08. Reason: Missed out something I wanted to say.
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Old 12.01.2012, 18:28
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

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It is normal in CH to have a 4-page long CV.

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! 2pages, maybe a "dritte seite". who told you that you can send in 4pages??? the challenge is to write your CV each and every time exactly accordingly to the application profile given= new CV each time. for sure you have a base, some core info and skills, but keep it brief, short and have the buzzwords in from the ad. in doubt call n ask if you dont understand the profile right. but never 4 pages. if you have a propper career...the last 3 positions in detail, the rest as
00/00-00/00, comp xyz, position abc manager.

and thats it.

detailed CV is a CV with important (especially for the role) milestones of your career. full application/dossier means full/detailed cv and all diploma, certificates, resumes. but only those relevant for the job!!! dont waste HR peeps time!
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Old 12.01.2012, 21:15
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

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ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! 2pages, maybe a "dritte seite". who told you that you can send in 4pages??? the challenge is to write your CV each and every time exactly accordingly to the application profile given= new CV each time. for sure you have a base, some core info and skills, but keep it brief, short and have the buzzwords in from the ad. in doubt call n ask if you dont understand the profile right. but never 4 pages. if you have a propper career...the last 3 positions in detail, the rest as
00/00-00/00, comp xyz, position abc manager.

and thats it.

detailed CV is a CV with important (especially for the role) milestones of your career. full application/dossier means full/detailed cv and all diploma, certificates, resumes. but only those relevant for the job!!! dont waste HR peeps time!
Geeez, mate, seriously... One thing that drives me bonkers is people trying to give digital solutions to analog problems. CVs are not black or white, but many shades of grey and nuances. No right or wrong - they are your own voice, for better or worse.

CVs are the most personal thing you have. For you and your industry, it as 2 page CV that you rewrite every time. For me, a 4-pager that I customize as I see fit. The OP will have to find his own voice, and decide what works best for him. For you, it works having your CV plagued with buzzwords. For me, whenever I send a CV, I add a table saying exactly how my experience fits their requirements. The OP will have to find how he wants to present himself. You have a popprer (sic) career and list the last 3 jobs. I have an improper career and list all my jobs. Personally, I like to call it "a well rounded professional, with a proven track of....". You have your challenges, I have mine, the OP will have theirs.

Again, there is no recipes for this, no right or wrong. All we have is opinions.

Who actually told me the 4 pager ruler was a Swiss HR lady, commenting on my minimal 2 pager. And, many other persons after that. For my industry and my line of work, it seems to be the norm. Not right or wrong, but what is accepted in my line of work. Personally, I rather go through a 4-pager that is esthetically pleasing that reads well, than a cluttered 2-pager full of buzzwords directly cut from the advertisement.
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Old 12.01.2012, 21:44
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

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I'm going to have to bring up the fact that I'm starting a therapy group this week that will meet weekly for the next 20 or so weeks!
Your employer and your colleagues don't need to know all of your medical details. Some things are meant to be kept private and personal.

This is Switzerland after all.
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Old 12.01.2012, 22:00
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

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Your employer and your colleagues don't need to know all of your medical details. Some things are meant to be kept private and personal.

This is Switzerland after all.
I understand my right to privacy, and I certainly don't feel the need to share everything... it's more the fact that, most inconveniently, the group will take place on Friday mornings and I know from experience (having participated in 2 similar groups before) that I may well be so drained from the group that I just need to go home and crash... which affects my availability in terms of when I can work.

Plus the fact that I've had difficulties in the past around lack of communication / understanding on health issues. I'd much rather give a general picture and be told straight out 'Sorry, we don't think you're right for us because of your medical history' than not discuss it and then have a stressful work situation later on as a result of that lack of discussion.
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Old 12.01.2012, 23:48
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Re: What is a 'detailed CV?'

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Geeez, mate, seriously... One thing that drives me bonkers is people trying to give digital solutions to analog problems. CVs are not black or white, but many shades of grey and nuances. No right or wrong - they are your own voice, for better or worse.
if that has worked for you, great. i had different CVs, longer ones, structured a,b,c. since i did like i said, i had way better interviews, offers etc. and i can say that about all i know who had it different and then changed to what i said (which is no news im spreading) had way better offers, finally jobs.

if you want to hand in 4 pages, do so. but its way not the norm...
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