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  #21  
Old 19.01.2012, 10:59
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Re: Women working in CH

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Exactly, this is the prevalent attitude - yes, it's tough, but the way things are is the way things are. Or, a I've heard, you simply get told that your place is at home anyway.
Or the kids simply go to private schools with supervision until 6pm. In the local paper this week it talks about the numbers in private schooling are up in Zug. We feel like we have no other choice if our son doesn't get into the day school.

Last edited by CH_Me; 19.01.2012 at 11:12.
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Old 19.01.2012, 11:12
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Re: Women working in CH

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Or the kids simply go to private schools with supervision until 6pm. In the local paper this week it talks about the numbers in private schooling are up in Zug.
I've heard it's not exactly a cheap option either.
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  #23  
Old 19.01.2012, 12:06
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Re: Women working in CH

Why don't you just go the old fashioned Swiss way? Look for people who think the same and start an political initiative?
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  #24  
Old 19.01.2012, 14:10
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Re: Women working in CH

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In the Canton of Bern you pay between CHF 0.65 and CHF 11.20 per hour for public childcare, according to the income. I wouldn't call this expensive. If you earn a lot you pay a lot. Day schools in Switzerland would be an option if the taxpayer were prepared to pay for new schools and bigger building plots (if available). With the existing buildings it will mostly not be possible to integrate this system.
But in the smaller towns, there just really isn't an option. They do have Mittagtisch where the Kiddos could go to someone else's house for lunch - but for the days they don't have afternoon school, this isn't really an option. Now I know, it is my fault for not living in a city - but don't think that there are viable options all over the country... If I wanted to go back to work, I would have to find a Tagesmutter to come in, also a fine option and would be willing to do that if I were to find a job!
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Old 19.01.2012, 14:22
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Re: Women working in CH

I live in a village with 5'000 inhabitents. There is a Krippe, a Tagesschule and a couple of play groups, it's all about demand and supply. If you don't articulate the demand you won't get anything.
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Old 19.01.2012, 14:45
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Re: Women working in CH

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I live in a village with 5'000 inhabitents. There is a Krippe, a Tagesschule and a couple of play groups, it's all about demand and supply. If you don't articulate the demand you won't get anything.
That's a metropolis compared to us, we are 1800 inhabitants...

Well, first I would need a job! Like I said, I am not against getting a Tagesmutter to run the show - if and when the situation comes up. But, having full day schools would make things easier! It was my biggest culture shock when we moved to the Munich area in 2009 to see kids with their backpacks on their way home for the day at 11:30 in the morning! I couldn't believe it. It still shocks me a bit I guess we just had a lot of wasted time in our schooling as I don't understand how the kids can learn as much with just 3 hours of school a day, compared to 6 hours a day. Anyways, that is for a different thread, I suppose!
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Old 19.01.2012, 14:59
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Re: Women working in CH

Going back to the original question about discrimination in the workplace - I work in IT which is slightly different but still even these days it's predominantly male. I don't really find discrimination at all. I suppose I have always really been "one of the boys" anyway - probably why I went into such a role in the first place - being a bit of a tomboy. Making it clear that you can handle a sexist joke without bursting into tears or filing for sexual harrassment is also the way to go - not that these things don't sometimes bother me, just that I know when to ignore and when to retort.

I do regularly experience the anti-working-mother brigade though. Much more than sex discrimintion. Having once had a huge row about it with a group of Swiss parents I came to understand that they see work and children as an exclusive choice and not something that you can or should do together. The trend in Switzerland does not seem to be women demanding the right to work AND have children. Here it seems that young girls, who want to work and have careers, make the decision early on that they will do that and just not have children. Until we see Swiss women (or voters) demanding to do both things aren't going to change.

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I live in a village with 5'000 inhabitents. There is a Krippe, a Tagesschule and a couple of play groups, it's all about demand and supply. If you don't articulate the demand you won't get anything.
This is far too simple a statement though - it is about supply and demand.... but where is the demand coming from? We live in a Gemeinde twice the size of yours. Here we do not have a tageschule or a even a mittagstisch every day. Daycare goes to age 6 and there are currently no Tagesfamilien available. We, as a 2 working parent family, have complained and complained until we are blue in the face, but apparently we are the only ones. I have been told straight out on more than one occasion that I should just be at home and that the Gemeinde will not provide for our situation because nobody else has this problem. So, again, why don't they? Because they choose not to work. Why do they choose not to work? Because a) they don't want to and b) they know it's impossible due to the childcare situation. So, how do you drum up this demand then?
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Old 19.01.2012, 15:03
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Re: Women working in CH

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Sure something can be done, but I'm from a totally different culture, so for me it seems so absurd that it's the parents who have to organize all this and work around the ridiculous school hours, totally incompatible with normal working hours. When it would make so much more sense the other way.
If a country is interested that people work and also have children, the school and childcare is organized to allow that - cheap subsidized childcare, school hours to fit in with working hours, school lunches, free after-school clubs and so on. Normal where I'm coming from.

In Switzerland, childcare and school hours seem to be made inconvenient on purpose, to keep women where they belong.
I live in a rural area- and I agree there is a strong element of truth with your last sentence. And as said above it is often the women themselves who are the most critical. Mind you, as I explained, I also had to fight this attitude in middle class Britain and 'Stepford wives' atitudes.

However, much better to put our heads together at local level and use imagination and some effort in beating the system, by clubbing together to employ staff, take it in turn (hopefully with the dad's help!), etc, etc- beating the system is much more enjoyable and positive than just moaning about it. (too late for me, my girls are pushing 40. The one with 2 little ones (near London) has to employ a full-time nanny at huge cost to be able to work, btw.). Shame I live out in the sticks as I have the perfect room to host a Kindergarten).

Last edited by Odile; 19.01.2012 at 15:24.
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  #29  
Old 19.01.2012, 15:09
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Re: Women working in CH

Should we start with a thread? "parents in gemeinde XX looking for organized shared child care? - perhaps it would be too optimistic to be able to gather enough support in each case to wake the administration out of their inertia, but at least may it would lead a to a new business opportunity for someone willing to set this up?
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  #30  
Old 19.01.2012, 15:27
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Re: Women working in CH

Absolutely - that's the way ahead. Or advertise for shared child care- working 2.5 days each, or any other pattern. Or finding a room, like Parish room, town hall, etc- to rent and take it in turn, etc, etc. There are ways ahead, I am sure. I have a young friend in Paris who has organised shared child-care, both with staff and their own supervision between 5 families. It can be done - but yes, needs thinking outside the box and some hard work and effort to set up initially- with or without Commune/Gemeinde support.
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Old 19.01.2012, 15:47
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Re: Women working in CH

Odile is right, that's the way to go. I often think the fundamental difference between Switzerland and other countries is that we very rarely think the "ones in the captial" have to offer us something. That's what I wanted to say with "demand and supply". You want something, therefore it's up to you to make it possible. Nobody offers you anything just like this. Ask others mothers, find allies, possibly in the neighbouring villages and speak to the people of the local school board.
Edit: Most cantons have laws which place childcare under obligation, normally based on the numer of children.
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  #32  
Old 19.01.2012, 17:12
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Re: Women working in CH

hi guys - the anti working mother brigade is also a pet peeve of mine...but i can't add to your excellent comments - i agree whole heartedly! been working for 4 years and my son is 8 - had crap from kindergartenteacher and bosses the like - how dare i do this to my child - i just make like a duck these days - he's doing fine and i can go skiing in austria twice a year!

have you tried lilliput.ch to look for childcare - it is in the local language, but most of the possibilities are listed there.

i have another question though - along these lines: where do all the swiss girl graduates go? i read a while ago that more girls graduate from ETH than guys - so why don't any of them work with me? not even unmarried and childless?!? where do they go? i miss working with women, i miss working with just as many women as men!

sd
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