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Old 20.01.2012, 08:41
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RAV Help to become Self-Employed

Has anyone had help from the RAV to become self-employed? If so, was it useful and did you still get paid while they helped you set up?

I am currently with the RAV as a job seeker, but have been considering re-training and becoming self-employed. Previously, I would not have considered this as dealing with things in Switzerland is so complicated.

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Old 20.01.2012, 09:39
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

They won't help at all once you become self-employed, and they won't pay you while you get setup.

They will however help you with training etc. to help you find a job, and if that job ends up being your own business that is fine.

However, when you are recieving unemployment pay, you are technically 'employed' with your job being to find a job. So engaging in any other business (or setting up your own business), be it paid or not, is not allowed.
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Old 20.01.2012, 10:02
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

As Boo has mentioned the RAV can advise you, but payment will not be possible when you become self employed. Their website points out the pitfalls,
http://www.awa.zh.ch/internet/volksw...endigkeit.html

The big danger is that if you fail you would loose all your capital and income. You would then have only social security payments. I have known several people whom left their employment to start their own business, with computer hardware, and all worked longer hours for the same money.

Sorry to be so negative, but if you have the skills and the resources, then good luck!
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Old 20.01.2012, 10:04
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

There's a session once a month on a Friday that explains all the ins and outs of going self-employed. It's run by the "Fachstelle für Selbständigkeit". Ask your RAV adviser about it. It is all in German, however, but very informative. Once you've attended the info session you can set up one-on-one appointments with the people there to get specialised information for your case. Good luck!
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Old 20.01.2012, 10:09
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

The RAV will pay you for 3 months whilst setting up a business, however you may not start trading. You wont have do do any job applications during the set up period.
The RAV run a 2 hour seminar on this (in German), they have been known to offer assistance in English as well.
The big advantage is your rahemnfrist doubles to 4 years so any unused unemployment pay can be claimed at a later date if your venture fails.

It's also possible to be 20% Self employed & 80% registered with the RAV, all is explained in the seminar.
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Old 20.01.2012, 11:35
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

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However, when you are recieving unemployment pay, you are technically 'employed' with your job being to find a job. So engaging in any other business (or setting up your own business), be it paid or not, is not allowed.
Not quite true, although yes, I think it would be if you set up a business.

If, however, you're doing some bitsa work, part time, odd jobs, working a few hours a week as a ski instructor, whatever, they will actively encourage you, even making up your pay for the day if it's less than they're paying you, _and_ not counting that day as one of your 400 days cover. Of course, you need to tell them and get their go-ahead first, but I'd think that starting to do some work towards one's eventual (hopefully) self-employed business would meet with their approval.
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Old 20.01.2012, 11:50
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

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Not quite true, although yes, I think it would be if you set up a business.

If, however, you're doing some bitsa work, part time, odd jobs, working a few hours a week as a ski instructor, whatever, they will actively encourage you, even making up your pay for the day if it's less than they're paying you, _and_ not counting that day as one of your 400 days cover. Of course, you need to tell them and get their go-ahead first, but I'd think that starting to do some work towards one's eventual (hopefully) self-employed business would meet with their approval.
Any money paid out is subtracted from the 400 days entitlement. It's not really days at all but money earnt / paid out. By law you have to do any paid work your offered so they cant say NO to you working regardless of what your advisor may say, you don't have to do any courses either!

In December I worked 5 days & took 2 weeks holiday, as RAV made no pay out I am classed as 100% working for December, which of course counts for my next rahemnfrist.
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Old 20.01.2012, 12:25
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

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Has anyone had help from the RAV to become self-employed? If so, was it useful and did you still get paid while they helped you set up?
The RAV definitively helps you during the the first >4 moths of your self employment. I.e. they pay you the same amount as before and you do not need to show up once a moth and to provide proof that you look for a job.

During this time you are supposed to set up your business, i.e. prepare business cards, website, templates for letters, bills, receipts, logo, advertising, accounting, etc.

To do so, you must present them a valid business plan. This is a good thing anyway because it helps you to focus and what you really want to do and it helps you get an understanding of your vision. This is a key to success. If you business plan is approved then you may go ahead.

Self employed is in this terms a sole proprietroship company. Which means no additional paper work is involved.

And why do you think it is complicated? Have you had better and less complicated experience in other countries?

Hope this helps.

Good luck.
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Old 20.01.2012, 13:12
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

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Any money paid out is subtracted from the 400 days entitlement.
Well that's certainly _not_ what they (RAV) said in the only example I have personal experience of. They were quite clear, as detailed in my previous post.
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Old 20.01.2012, 14:41
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

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If, however, you're doing some bitsa work, part time, odd jobs, working a few hours a week as a ski instructor, whatever, they will actively encourage you, even making up your pay for the day if it's less than they're paying you, _and_ not counting that day as one of your 400 days cover.
This is true, but in this case the time you are 'employed' you are not unemployed. e.g. if you do a job for 2 days, you are technically 'employed' for those 2 days by the job giver - they will pay any difference in salary but it does need to be proper (legal) employment.

If you spend your time writing a book, a piece of software, or building furniture which you will later sell, then you could have issues.

As soon as you have income from being Self-Employed then you can kiss your unemployment pay goodbye (except if it is part-time, then just that percentage. or if they don't know about it)
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Old 20.01.2012, 17:33
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

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Well that's certainly _not_ what they (RAV) said in the only example I have personal experience of. They were quite clear, as detailed in my previous post.
What they say & what actually happens with the 'kasse' are 2 completly differently things. The RAV personal don't have direct experiance or real understanding. What is told at the course in English is incorrect.

If you look at your payout & devide it by your daily benefit, that will match your lost days corrected to 1/10 day.

With no children earning 70.1% of previous salary will result in 0 payout & 0 used days as that counts as 100% employed, however earning 69.9% will result in a payout & loss of about 6.5 days.

It's also further complicated by holiday pay, if you earn 100chf i'ts counted as 92.30 plus 7.30 holiday pay, the holiday pay gets added to any earnings in any month you take a holiday. (This additional calculation is new since April, previously holiday pay was just ignored.)

To get a new rahemnfrist it's necessary to have a minumium of 12 months work (reduced no of days) or 18 months for the full 400 days.
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Old 20.01.2012, 17:41
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

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This is true, but in this case the time you are 'employed' you are not unemployed. e.g. if you do a job for 2 days, you are technically 'employed' for those 2 days by the job giver - they will pay any difference in salary but it does need to be proper (legal) employment.
)
It's also possible to be self employed for a single day, which is how I deal with foreign sourced work.

The work needs to be 'declaired', it does not have to be 'legal' employment.
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Old 20.01.2012, 19:18
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

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It's also possible to be self employed for a single day, which is how I deal with foreign sourced work.
Income from outside the country is slightly different.

By 'legal' I mean a legal form of employment, in which it has to be declared of course, AHV etc. paid, and so on.
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Old 20.01.2012, 19:29
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

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Income from outside the country is slightly different.

By 'legal' I mean a legal form of employment, in which it has to be declared of course, AHV etc. paid, and so on.
Income from outside the country for work done in Switzerland is not 'different' it's just easier to administer as 'self employed' the last page of the Zwischenverdient form caters for it, you can deduct 20% of earnings After expenses.
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Old 27.01.2012, 10:26
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

Thank you to everyone for your responses - I think it needs to be a conversation I raise with my RAV advisor. It would certainly useful to still have the RAV payments while putting everything in place when doing the initial set up.

Once I have clarity on this, I will provide an update.

Thanks
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Old 27.01.2012, 12:03
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

My adviser also said you had 4 months to set the business up before trading commences per the post above. My recollection is that you get paid during this time and do not need to show up. If your business is successful, then you go off the RAV books and don't get paid anymore by then. If you are not successful, you go back on the RAV. Almost can only be a good thing if you want to become independent of 'the man'.
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Old 20.05.2012, 22:17
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

Probably should be a new thread but I recently became unemployed and am registered with the RAV. I seem to have the prospect of getting odd bits of work - some consultancy for a few hours or days at a time, some short-term assignments which may last for weeks or months. I'd like to build up enough of this work such that, over a year, I'd get at least as much as I get off the RAV and hence would not need the RAV. Initially it may only be a few chunks of a few hours.

Does anyone have any advice on how to approach this to ensure I can continue to at least get the difference in income between my part-time work and the RAV payments I would get if I was unemployed?

And is it best to find some agency to employ me, set up a GmbH or work as self-employed?

Thanks in anticipation for any advice.
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Old 20.05.2012, 23:18
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

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Probably should be a new thread but I recently became unemployed and am registered with the RAV. I seem to have the prospect of getting odd bits of work - some consultancy for a few hours or days at a time, some short-term assignments which may last for weeks or months. I'd like to build up enough of this work such that, over a year, I'd get at least as much as I get off the RAV and hence would not need the RAV. Initially it may only be a few chunks of a few hours.

Does anyone have any advice on how to approach this to ensure I can continue to at least get the difference in income between my part-time work and the RAV payments I would get if I was unemployed?

And is it best to find some agency to employ me, set up a GmbH or work as self-employed?

Thanks in anticipation for any advice.
You can work as an employee for those odd days, I have been doing that for the past 6 years. If you earn enough one month you get nothing, if you earn less it gets topped up, this has been discussed many times.
Last year I worked for 7 companies, also some self emoloyed, got some RAV payment about 3 times IIRC.
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Old 04.06.2013, 14:55
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

Does anyone know if the program through RAV for the self-employment option (3 months business setup / rahmenfrist extension) is available to those who have quit on their own accord or only for those who have been made redundant?

I'm aware of the penalty days from RAV for quitting, but wanted to know if the self-employment route through them would still be an option.

Thanks!

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The RAV will pay you for 3 months whilst setting up a business, however you may not start trading. You wont have do do any job applications during the set up period.
The RAV run a 2 hour seminar on this (in German), they have been known to offer assistance in English as well.
The big advantage is your rahemnfrist doubles to 4 years so any unused unemployment pay can be claimed at a later date if your venture fails.

It's also possible to be 20% Self employed & 80% registered with the RAV, all is explained in the seminar.
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Old 04.06.2013, 16:39
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Re: RAV Help to become Self-Employed

It's available to everyone, you have to get your business case approved that's all
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