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Old 14.03.2012, 15:05
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Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

I recently have received a job offer from an Architects Team in Zurich.
The offer is: 23000 CHF and a contract in practice.

I doubt this budget would be enough to live in Zurich, paying a room, food, transport, health insurance...

What do you think?
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Old 14.03.2012, 15:44
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

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I recently have received a job offer from an Architects Team in Zurich.
The offer is: 23000 CHF and a contract in practice.

I doubt this budget would be enough to live in Zurich, paying a room, food, transport, health insurance...

What do you think?
23 000 for what? How many months? Part-time?

Because 23 000 is not even the minimum allowed. If full time for 12 months is less than 2000/month.

What is not likely here. You need to put the conditions.
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Old 14.03.2012, 16:30
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

23.000/year

It's a contract in practice, I don't know if there's a minimun for "that"... :-/

I can't set any condition, the offer is "take it or 1.000 other people would die for it"

Sadly our profession nowadays is very devalueted.


I need to know if I can live in Zurich with that salary, in a shared house, of course.
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Old 14.03.2012, 16:48
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

Olol,

I invite you to read this article on the ongoing "minimum wage" debate in Switzerland. Please note this quote: “In some regions you need less than SFr4,000 for a decent quality of life, but in Zurich SFr5,000 is sometimes not even enough".

Usually, for this type of questions, you get the full spectrum of responses on the forum, ranging from "I know plenty of people who live on that" to "Are you kidding?". My opinion is that, if we are talking about CHF 23K per year, taking into account taxes, rent, medical insurance (which is mandatory), and the high cost of living, it is impossible.

My question to you however is: what is the alternative? A good job in Spain vs this offer in Switzerland, or unemployment in Spain vs this offer? I would make such a big change only if I could improve the situation, but I would respectfully point out to the people, data on hand (Google cost of living in Zurich, comparis.ch for rents, and similar), that the salary they are offering is a joke. Their claim that there is a line of people ready to take that offer is IMO a joke too, unless these people live with mom&dad, don't have to pay living expenses, and so forth.

Good luck!
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Old 14.03.2012, 16:55
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

Don't tell anyone I told you, but in case of people earning too little the local government can pay your medical insurance and possibly a certain amount of your rent. If you will be doing a practice I'm not sure if you are still considered student, in which case you could get the usual discounts.
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Old 14.03.2012, 17:18
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

My question to you however is: what is the alternative? A good job in Spain vs this offer in Switzerland, or unemployment in Spain vs this offer?

The alternative is no job in Spain, things are really bad here. I don't wanna go back to mom&dad's (I love them, but I feel too big for that), so I am trying to find something in another country.

I would make such a big change only if I could improve the situation, but I would respectfully point out to the people, data on hand (Google cost of living in Zurich, comparis.ch for rents, and similar), that the salary they are offering is a joke.


That people put an offer anouncement in the Madrid Architectural Association webpage.
In fact the offer was in Euros, 19.000/year, which is not very bad to live here.
You think it's a joke, I don't know what do they think about that, I would love to know... and I 'd love to know how much do the other members of the team earn a year...
Surely they know how desperate are the spanish young architects, such as I.

But I find insulting their offer considering the Swiss cost living.

Thank you VERY MUCH for your advices :-)
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Old 14.03.2012, 17:24
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

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I recently have received a job offer from an Architects Team in Zurich.
The offer is: 23000 CHF and a contract in practice.

I doubt this budget would be enough to live in Zurich, paying a room, food, transport, health insurance...

What do you think?
I don't quite understand what you mean by contract in practice. If it is some sort of practical training / internship each architectural student has to do during their studies then the offer you've been given is quite average. I know it's not much but considering that many students get financial help from their parents throughout their studies (and internship is part of that) it's considered to be an ok pay.
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Old 14.03.2012, 17:27
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

Guys, don't mix apples with oranges.

I am assuminging that "contract in practice" means a position as Praktikant.

For a Praktikant, 23'000 CHF is a perfectly correct, and legal, remuneration. It is even above what is usually paid out. Standard for a Praktikant is 800-1000 CHF / month.

If it is a normal job, it is of course way too low but I don't think it is a normal job at this stage. It might become one later on but that is totally up to the employer.

I see nothing wrong accepting a job as a Praktikant as your first job if you are comming from abroad with limited language knowledge e.g. It is a far better, and cheaper way to learn the language than to take an expensive language course.

I also believe that the chances to land a proper job after a 6 months stay as Praktikant are very high. You are there, you speak the language, you start getting connections, you read the local paper for job ads....
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Old 14.03.2012, 17:31
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

As BokerTov said.

It seems to me that they are taking advantage of the situation in some countries to offer such salary. And, believe me, for that money the queu for the job has to be very very short.
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Old 14.03.2012, 17:42
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

Hi Tilia,

Thank you for your answer.

That's right, it'd be a job as a Praktikantin, but it's not my first job.

I don't see anything wrong with accepting it, except that maybe I couldn't subsist with that budget in your city.


I also believe that the chances to land a proper job after a 6 months stay as Praktikant are very high. You are there, you speak the language, you start getting connections, you read the local paper for job ads....

You're very right.

Thanks,

Olga.
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Old 14.03.2012, 17:45
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

I don't agree. I see it as a win-win situation. The chances that a Swiss architect company would hire a non-Germany speaking, foreigner, with limited working experience, from abroad is basically nill.

This way the architect company gets fairly qualified help in the office for a reasonable price and the Praktikant gets valuable experience and the opportunity to learn the language and the Swiss building norms "on the job" and gets a foot in the door into Switzerland.

Why is it perfectly fine to pay 100'000 CHF for an MBA but not ok to work as a Praktikant for 6 months for a reasonable remuneration?


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As BokerTov said.

It seems to me that they are taking advantage of the situation in some countries to offer such salary. And, believe me, for that money the queu for the job has to be very very short.
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Old 14.03.2012, 17:46
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

Well, you may have experience but you applied for an entry level position, and you got an offer for that. If it's not a good suit for you, may be it's time to look for more senior positions.
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Old 14.03.2012, 17:50
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

I meant your first job in Switzerland :-)

It will be tough to live on 23'000 CHF but it won't be impossible. You need to think "live like a student" and you should be ok.

Knowing perfectly well what the situation is like in Spain at the moment, especially for architects, I would take the opportunity. What are your choices? If nothing else, you will have a great 6 months and you will learn a new language and hopefully after 6 months, you either get a proper job in Switzerland or things have imporved in spain.

Another alternative is Middle East. Know of Spanish architects that have gone down that route. But it might be difficult for a woman (assuming you are a woman :-)




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Hi Tilia,

Thank you for your answer.

That's right, it'd be a job as a Praktikantin, but it's not my first job.

I don't see anything wrong with accepting it, except that maybe I couldn't subsist with that budget in your city.


I also believe that the chances to land a proper job after a 6 months stay as Praktikant are very high. You are there, you speak the language, you start getting connections, you read the local paper for job ads....

You're very right.

Thanks,

Olga.
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Old 14.03.2012, 17:54
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

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I don't agree. I see it as a win-win situation. The chances that a Swiss architect company would hire a non-Germany speaking, foreigner, with limited working experience, from abroad is basically nill.

This way the architect company gets fairly qualified help in the office for a reasonable price and the Praktikant gets valuable experience and the opportunity to learn the language and the Swiss building norms "on the job" and gets a foot in the door into Switzerland.

Why is it perfectly fine to pay 100'000 CHF for an MBA but not ok to work as a Praktikant for 6 months for a reasonable remuneration?
I see your point. It does give her the chance to get the experience and, hopefully, progress within the company.

Still, that kind of money doesn't seem much when she has to pay for a flat in Zurich.
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Old 14.03.2012, 18:10
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

yeah 23.000 might not be much, but right now in Spain things are extremely bad. 95% of the new architects do not get a job.

id definitely take it
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Old 14.03.2012, 18:13
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

This is half of what a PhD student earns...!

You might be able to make it, maybe, maybe, if you get a cheap room in a shared flat, but might very well be 1/3 to 1/2 of what you'll earn. If you cook all your meals, it MIGHT be alright for a couple of months. You might not have a lot of fun activities (trips or evenings out). But you could MAYBE survive. Do you have money saved up on the side? Because you will definitely need it.

I think the very minimum they ask for a foreign student is to prove they have 20000CHF a year...

ps: si quieres hablar en español mándame un PM
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Old 14.03.2012, 18:28
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

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It will be tough to live on 23'000 CHF but it won't be impossible. You need to think "live like a student" and you should be ok.
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Still, that kind of money doesn't seem much when she has to pay for a flat in Zurich.
I don't know. My days of "living like a student" were a bit ago (), and I did it elsewhere than Switzerland, so I may not be up to date with all the student benefits that could be available as a praktikant here.

Nothing is impossible - I am all for being resourceful and giving it a try for the awesome experience, I have done it when I had to and hence my first question, "what is the alternative?", but I stand by what I said - without some sort of help (family or otherwise), I don't see how CHF 23K a year will be enough for living in Zurich. If there is help (reduced insurance, help with the rent, help from the family, possibility of doing side jobs, etc.) then it's another story.
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Old 14.03.2012, 20:01
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

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For a Praktikant, 23'000 CHF is a perfectly correct, and legal, remuneration. It is even above what is usually paid out. Standard for a Praktikant is 800-1000 CHF / month.

If it is a normal job, it is of course way too low but I don't think it is a normal job at this stage. It might become one later on but that is totally up to the employer.
....
After taxes and health insurance she probably can count on less than 1500 fr a month actually. Maybe is do-able renting a room in a shared flat and being extremely tight on the budget. Why not give it a try? Working for a little amount of money but with the hope that at the end of these 6 months she'll get a proper job offer or at least a pay raise, should be better than being unemployed, me thinks.
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Old 14.03.2012, 20:43
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

Sorry, but it's not possible for some one to move countries and live on this salary. These types of jobs with the equivalent salary are really for kids who are either living with their parents or have their parents helping them pay the bills.

This salary is below the poverty line which means she would be eligible for social benefits. I can't see the commune approving a permit unless she can show she has money in the bank.
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Old 14.03.2012, 21:03
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Re: Spanish Architect looking for a job in Zurich

I hope the OP like concrete, thats about all they use here due to the 30 year guarantee thats given!
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