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Old 22.04.2012, 16:13
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Work conditions as a Nanny

Dear EF members,

I am getting in contact with one family to start working in Zurich as a part time live-out Nanny.
As I don´t still have a work permit in Zurich, I told her that she must ask for a work permit for me as being my employer.
She has answered me that she would ask for a work permit as Au Pair for me:

lhttp://www.awa.zh.ch/internet/volkswirtschaftsdirektion/awa/en/arbeitsbewilligungen/eu8_eu2/aupair_hausangestellte.html

but I won´t be an Au Pair, as I won´t be living with them an only owrking part time. She also told me that since it is mandatory to do a language course i would need to take it and pay it.

I would like to know if what she is offering me is legal or illegal as I don´t want to have any problem when I will be there. I also don´t know if with that permit I will have any problem and if she is employing me as Au Pair she won´t pay any taxes or pension.

I am a little bit worried because it doesn´t seem to be a good start when she is trying to hire me as another thing.

I would appreciate any help from your side.

Thanks!

Laura
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Old 22.04.2012, 16:26
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

Other people will give you far more information than I can but there is a big difference between a nanny and au pair. If you are an au pair then you are limited in the hours you work and you normally live with the family. I believe the family should pay your health insurance and for a language course. Also I don't think you are allowed to be the same nationality as the family.

As a nanny you would be paid a much higher salary but I don't think the family pay your health insurance and there is no requirement for the language course.

In short what this family are arranging does not sound right.
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Old 22.04.2012, 16:28
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

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Dear EF members,

I am getting in contact with one family to start working in Zurich as a part time live-out Nanny.
As I don´t still have a work permit in Zurich, I told her that she must ask for a work permit for me as being my employer.
She has answered me that she would ask for a work permit as Au Pair for me:

lhttp://www.awa.zh.ch/internet/volkswirtschaftsdirektion/awa/en/arbeitsbewilligungen/eu8_eu2/aupair_hausangestellte.html

but I won´t be an Au Pair, as I won´t be living with them an only owrking part time. She also told me that since it is mandatory to do a language course i would need to take it and pay it.

I would like to know if what she is offering me is legal or illegal as I don´t want to have any problem when I will be there. I also don´t know if with that permit I will have any problem and if she is employing me as Au Pair she won´t pay any taxes or pension.

I am a little bit worried because it doesn´t seem to be a good start when she is trying to hire me as another thing.

I would appreciate any help from your side.

Thanks!

Laura
First of all, in order for you to be approved for the permit she will be applying for you MUST meet certain criteria. The first of which, is that for an Au Pair permit, said Au Pair MUST live IN the home with the family.

Secondly, if you are working as an au pair then there are restrictions to the amount of hours you are allowed to work. If you live outside the home, and work more than the approved hours then your employer (and you) are breaking the law.

Lastly, your employer, whether you are a nanny or an au pair or anything else, is required BY LAW to pay into your pension and taxes on your behalf. Whether she is allowed to take those out of your salary or not, I'm not sure. Perhaps someone else more knowledgeable about how the taxes actually work can clarify.

So far, from your post, she doesn't sound very trustworthy, and I would be worried about her not following your "contract" and telling you that the contract was written in such a way in order to get you a visa. Sounds like she's just looking for cheap labor.
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Old 22.04.2012, 16:52
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

If you are an EU citizen then your employer doe not apply for your permit you do. You have to take your employment contract (you do have one?) to the local Geminde and arrange it yourself.

There tends to be a lot of confusion when hiring a nanny or Au Pair and what needs to be done legally so it may just be your employer has no idea how to do it. What does your contract say in terms of hours, will you have sole charge of the children, will you be registered as living with them or living out? Once we know the answer to these we can tell you what you are being employed as.
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Old 22.04.2012, 16:59
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

Laura, as you are writing from Madrid I wonder are you Spanish?
If so as an EU and a nanny you would need to apply for your permit yourself when you arrive. But that would mean finding a place to live etc.

If you are an au pair you must not share the mother tongue of the family you will be living with etc. Lots more conditions also apply but a roof over your head is a good start.
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Old 22.04.2012, 17:30
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

Dear all,

thank you for your answers. I will try to give some further information and maybe you can help me in a better way.
I still do not have any contract with anybody but I am getting in contact with different potential employers.
I have some doubts about what you mean for getting my work permit. As far as I have read in the zurich work department, it is the employer the person that may ask for the work permit.

http://www.awa.zh.ch/internet/volksw...ungen/faq.html

but some of you said that, as being EU member, I can do it myself if I have any contract. I already have a place to live (I am moving with my boyfriend and he has already a job and an accomodation)
As said, I am talking with some potential employer for a live-out nanny position part time (20 hours/week) and she has offered me to ask for a work permit as Au Pair:

lhttp://www.awa.zh.ch/internet/volkswirtschaftsdirektion/awa/en/arbeitsbewilligungen/eu8_eu2/aupair_hausangestellte.html

But this doesn´t sound legal for me as I wont be living with them and I don´t want to do any mandatory language course and pay it myself.

Do you know if I can work as a Nanny with this work permit?
In case not, which work permit should I apply for? Do I have to apply it myself or my employer? I am really lost on that and I feel and I am getting cheated by this employer.

Thank you in advance for all your help!

Laura
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Old 22.04.2012, 17:31
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

By the way, yes I am spanish!
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Old 22.04.2012, 18:05
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

Laura, as you see there is quite a difference between working as a nanny, and working as a aupair. The two terms mean very different jobs - in terms of salary, hours worked, and responsibility.

An aupair is really a cultural exchange visa for young people - in return for room and board with a family, in return for language lessons, an au pair works a maximum of 30 hours per week, half of which one of the adults should be at home. The salary is really just pocket change.

A nanny is a responsible position - full or part time, live in or live out. A nanny has full charge of the children, and should receive a significantly higher salary.

Whether a nanny does any duties other than child care is something to be negotiated. If your employer expects you to do the housework as well as look after the children, make sure your salary is appropriate.

In any event, you must have a contract with your employer - and taxes and social insurances need to be paid.

Unfortunately, there are some employers who exploit those offering domestic services such as child care.

A naive young person takes a job as an aupair, and ends up doing a nanny's job over long hours, assuming full responsibility - for the 'pocket money' salary of an aupair. Sadly, a few unscrupulous employers know such young folk are vulnerable and refuse to provide a legal contract and/or pay taxes/insurances. This is called Schwarzarbeit - and working illegally will get you (both) in trouble.

Hopefully the employer you are in contact with is simply confused about the two titles. But you should be very clear about what you are getting into.


Soooo - make sure you understand exactly what the job entails, make sure you know your rights - and above all, make sure you understand to the letter any contract you sign.

Wishing you all the best.
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Old 22.04.2012, 18:29
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

Thank you very much Melloncolie.

I know the differences between being an Au Pair and a Nanny. I was just wondering if the work permit that my employer is offering me is the one appropiate for working as a live-out Nanny.
Regarding to the duties, she just want me to take care of three children, help them learning english and cook for them. She is offering me a maximum of 25 chf/hour brutto (including the taxes and the language course she says is mandatory for me) for 20 hours/week.

I would appreciate your opinion about the work permit issue and the wage she is offering me.

Thanks!

Laura
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Old 22.04.2012, 18:35
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

Dear Laura - have you got accommodation organised with friends or something. Apart from the legal issues, there is NO way you can survive in Zurich for 25CHF/hour part-time. This is so sad, as yet again it sounds as some unscrupulous person is taking advantage. Whatever you do make sure she pays for Insurance both sickness AND accident, just in case. We've had several members in the past who found too late they were NOT insured.
As you will NOT be an au-pair, there is NO language course compulsory, but I'd say it would be a pity to live here and not take advantage of learning German - so you can eventually look for a better job once you've acquired some German. If your employer insists on you doing a language course, SHE would have to pay for it, not you.

This makes me so angry, as it happens again and again. And sadly, the employers know that there are so many in the queue, that they will find somebody prepared to work illegally, un-ensured, for peanuts. Mind you, this is the same all over, not just Switzerland. Bonne chance.

Last edited by Odile; 22.04.2012 at 19:27.
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Old 22.04.2012, 18:35
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

Hello,

I was an Au Pair in 2009-2010. Basically, you and your host mom can work out your working conditions. I had friends who has similar work conditions as you (ie. they were paid hourly, lived out, worked less hours, etc.) and were on Au Pair contracts. It may not be totally on the "up and up" but it's common enough that you will be fine if that's what you agree to.

She will be contractually obliged to pay for at least half of the language course though (amounting to at least 120 hours), as well as at least half of your health insurance, as you will still on paper have an Au Pair contract. Make sure you iron out these details (as well as the costs) before you arrive. I suggest that you make sure she does pay for half of these costs, as they can really add up, and 2 thousand francs a month can run away quite quickly. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 22.04.2012, 18:44
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

i don't know the specific laws about your issue, but other posters seem to have addressed your questions pretty thoroughly.
I just encourage you to have the most open and honest dialogue with a prospective employer, even if it's hard to do via mail or phone. If you are feeling unsure about your employment conditions, but are unable to express this to a prospective employer in a matter of fact/ non confrontational way, then this may not be a good match for you. In general, the more questions, concerns and details that you can discuss prior to employment, the better off you both will be.
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Old 22.04.2012, 18:47
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

Thanks,

I will be leaving in Zurich and I know that that salary is not enough for a living, fortunately, my boyfriend will have a better salary and adding up both salaries, it will be a good monthly income.
I understand then, that it may be fairly legal to make me an Au Pair work permit for working as a live-out nanny. What problems can I find if I accept that? What should I then tell to my employer?
She has told me that it is mandatory to take a language course and a health insurance, but she has told me that I must pay up everything and everything is include in the 25 chf/hours. I guess that if she wants me to have an Au Pair work permit she is cheating me.
Do you have any links to any official document that state everything you are telling me so I can show them to her.
She has also told me that she has done this with her previous two nannies, so I think she is doing this totally on purpose. I was really happy with this family, but after this, I guess I cannot trust them anymore.

Thanks again

Laura
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Old 22.04.2012, 19:06
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

Laura one thing to bear in mind is that an Au Pair permit is restricted, that is all you will be able to do. If you go for a nanny contract and a normal B working permit then you can take on a second part time job, there are lots of people in Zurich who need child care only a couple of days or afternoons or mornings a week. CHF25 is a normal hourly rate for an unqualified nanny so your employer is not cheating you there. Your employer must by law pay for your accident insurance and her contribution to your social insurances, you won't be earning enough, at least as first, to be making pension contributions but you should be registered with them none the less.

In your shoes I would avoid the Au Pair permit but make sure you fully understand the implications of both situations before you make up your mind.
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Old 22.04.2012, 19:15
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

So that is the problem of that permit. That would mean I wouldn´t be able to do any other part time job? That is really mean from my employer as I said I would want to do another part time job while working with them. I don´t know if it is some reason in why she want me to do that kind of permit? Does a regular work permit suppose too much trouble or time for the employer if the employee is an EU-25 citizen?
Can any of you tell me if there is a lot of diference for an employer to ask for an Au Pair work permit or a regular work permit?
Would I have any problem on getting a regular work permit with a part time Nanny contract?

Thanks again!

Laura
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Old 22.04.2012, 19:19
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

I think you need to move on to a different employer. At least this has prompted you to find out more and be clearer with your next opportunity.
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Old 22.04.2012, 19:26
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

As you are going to live with your boy-friend who will have a decent salary - why not wait until you are here. That way you can visit the family and make sure all is in order and legal, with decent conditions, insurance, etc. I'd certainly give that family who is bending the law and not being honest a miss. Sadly I bet they will find somebody desperate enough... but hopefully not you. There are plenty of people looking for a child-carer in Zurich - look for the good ones. Good luck.
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Old 22.04.2012, 19:28
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

A normal permit is less hassle as you would do the work of getting it yourself. Don't judge your employer until you speak to her though she may not know anything about the ins and outs of permits.

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So that is the problem of that permit. That would mean I wouldn´t be able to do any other part time job? That is really mean from my employer as I said I would want to do another part time job while working with them. I don´t know if it is some reason in why she want me to do that kind of permit? Does a regular work permit suppose too much trouble or time for the employer if the employee is an EU-25 citizen?
Can any of you tell me if there is a lot of diference for an employer to ask for an Au Pair work permit or a regular work permit?
Would I have any problem on getting a regular work permit with a part time Nanny contract?

Thanks again!

Laura
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Old 22.04.2012, 20:38
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

I am feeling a little bit lost..you said that the work permit has to be asked by myself? That is not what the zurich inmigration department says, they state that the work permit must always be processed by the employer. Can somebody clearify me that?
On the other hand, you may be right and maybe my employer dont know the limitations and restrictions of that permit. I will talk to her about that.

Thanks!
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Old 22.04.2012, 20:41
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Re: Work conditions as a Nanny

If you are going for the normal B permit then all you have to do is take your employment contract to the local Geminde or Kreis Bureau and do the paper work yourself. My last 2 nannies have done it this way.

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I am feeling a little bit lost..you said that the work permit has to be asked by myself? That is not what the zurich inmigration department says, they state that the work permit must always be processed by the employer. Can somebody clearify me that?
On the other hand, you may be right and maybe my employer dont know the limitations and restrictions of that permit. I will talk to her about that.

Thanks!
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