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  #61  
Old 15.05.2018, 21:29
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Re: Is the standard work week here really 42.5 hours?

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But really Mikers, your case is not the norm in my 30+ years of experience here.

Tom
And thatís a fair point tom, I over exaggerated the first time, but we wonít fully agree.
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  #62  
Old 15.05.2018, 22:22
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Re: Is the standard work week here really 42.5 hours?

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My emotion though, and where I agree with curleys comments on the type of job being the most important thing, is low income workers. Here the blasť ‘more than a days work you pay me or I’m off’ does not work, as you can be easily replaced, and it’s those workers I would like to stand up for. The talented few strutting their stuff about how easy it is to get another job are in the minority in all countries then you look at employment and pay grades.
Frankly I, for one, didn't stand up for low income workers in general. I was against the idea expressed with so much pathos here that those people who work more than the legal amount of hours are either forced-labour workers or some masochistic nutters, as Tom implied. The amount of time spent in the office depends on the job's complexity, the importance of a certain project within a company etc etc, why not on the rest of the team and environment there.
OH can find a new job (I guess he's situated in that happy minority?but that's for a reason- work experience, credentials and relevant studies) but he likes working for the current company and he gives more than 100% to this professional project. As I said, not for free, so no complaints here. I guess what I was trying to say is that there are situations when people have to sacrifice something in order to keep a good job and even if they do it for the family, often times it's the family that suffers most. (one way or another, but hey, nothing comes for free in this life, so I'm doing my part too)
I'm sorry to have dragged along into this discussion, indirectly of course, people (uhm, OH) who don't even read EF, ever, but this is what a public forum is - and if we get too familiar with it, it's just inevitable. TMI - and I'm a very private person. I guess it's OK to see all these wanted and unwanted opinions, but some people, with their condescending assumptions, just rub me the wrong way. As I said, I always regret writing anything a bit more personal here. ;-) Or simply replying to a certain type of posts. I don't know when I'll learn! lol.

Last edited by greenmount; 15.05.2018 at 22:38.
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  #63  
Old 15.05.2018, 23:08
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Re: Is the standard work week here really 42.5 hours?

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S/he's lacking talent in organizing.
I'd like to nudge you gently towards using the epicene they.

It has a long and noble tradition from such writers as Chaucer, Shakespeare, and Austen and has common modern usage. (And, quite honestly, the s/he pattern literally did fall from the ugly tree and hit all the branches on the way down...)

Last edited by speakeron; 15.05.2018 at 23:17. Reason: Misspelt Austen and didn't catch it before it was quoted for all posterity.
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  #64  
Old 15.05.2018, 23:14
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Re: Is the standard work week here really 42.5 hours?

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I'd like to nudge you gently towards using the epicene they.

It has a long and noble tradition from such writers as Chaucer, Shakespeare, and Austin and has common modern usage. (And, quite honestly, the s/he pattern literally did fall from the ugly tree and hit all the branches on the way down...)
You can push me hard towards that, if you like.
I never ever used s/he before I learnt it on EF and will happily drop it again.

After all, who wouldn't like to write like Shakespeare .... specially as I was a natural before EF, apparently.
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Old 15.05.2018, 23:26
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Re: Is the standard work week here really 42.5 hours?

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I never ever used s/he before I learnt it on EF and will happily drop it again.
I'd suppose I'd want the names of these miscreant teachers, but the thought of actually looking at their posts makes me want to seek out a blackboard to drag my nails along. So I'll let it lie.
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  #66  
Old 16.05.2018, 06:10
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Re: Is the standard work week here really 42.5 hours?

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I think Curley and the other guy are just winding you up. No-one in their right frame of mind would see things as narrowly as they seem to be doing.
You think? I ceased a long time ago to ask myself why certain people behave in certain way - online or otherwise. It's their problem, not mine.
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  #67  
Old 16.05.2018, 09:41
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Re: Is the standard work week here really 42.5 hours?

De jure hours are often shorter than here in many Anglophone countries, but that does not mean they actually are de facto. Here, people tend to follow the letter of the contract much more, they do their 42 hours, and leave the office not one moment later. In one office I worked, a co-worker was refused an increase in annual holidays, so he took to working an extra six minutes per day, logged them and at the end of the year got himself an extra five days holidays.

Meanwhile in countries like Ireland or the UK, I've often found that even though the official hours are shorter, people will regularly do overtime, as if there is some unwritten rule that this is expected of everyone.

Overall, it amounts to the same thing in practice; here you'll tend to do only the hours required, while back home you'll end up doing more. Largely cancels out, I find.

Naturally, other people's experiences will vary (I'd imagine US multinationals here will try to exploit both working cultures to maximize labour), but I do think there is a somewhat different working culture, not only in this, but how people here tend to start and end earlier and lunch is at 12 rather than 1pm.
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  #68  
Old 16.05.2018, 11:16
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Re: Is the standard work week here really 42.5 hours?

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And thatís a fair point tom, I over exaggerated the first time, but we wonít fully agree.
You two may be talking at cross purposes. Mikers appears to have cadre positions in mind whereas Tom may be talking about non-supervisor jobs. The requirements are often quite different between the two, especially those above "simple" team leader positions.
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  #69  
Old 16.05.2018, 11:35
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Re: Is the standard work week here really 42.5 hours?

How you manage the 42 hour thing is linked to where you work (canton) and your company culture/team environment.


If you're working in Kanton Basel Stadt and you're below a certain level of management, then you're badging in and out and your hours are being captured. I don't think or tracking per say to hold you to number of hours, rather protective to at least on the record show you're not working excessively over time. In BS the company will compensate you for time above that amont either monetary or with time. Its not a good thing to have excessive recorded time, so what you see is alot of employees will badge out say at 5:00 PM and go back to their desks to continue working so the true number of hours one works is not recorded.


In Zurich Kanton, there is not requirment to badge in and out per se ('m aware of) at at least at mid-management level and no body ever tracked my time - unlike others who have posted, and had a company culture that had a great work life balance - you were free to manage the time the way you could provided you delivered your work to to be honest that was not really above that 42 hour mark - I could work late one day and leave early another, no questions asked ever.


So look into the those few areas and see what the culture is. I had a job in Kanton Fribroug where there was a Badge in/out as part of entnering the building (a manufacturing site) but I was at a level of management where I was not scope for number of hours per HR.


Some countries like France have lower number of hours, i.e. 35 hours but what they do is they say the time you work per week in the contract is 38 hours or so an then they give you 10 extra days off to compenstate that. Thre is no badging in and out and the reality is that they're all workking over 35 hours if not far more (corporate people) - no one is enforcing that at least.


so take a look, most companies i've been in and jobs i've held have given me freedome to spend my time as I see fit - no one every tracked my hourse (save for Basel when I was lower ranking role) and I think most bosses are more focused on getting the job done.


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  #70  
Old 17.05.2018, 08:31
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Re: Is the standard work week here really 42.5 hours?

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Some countries like France have lower number of hours, i.e. 35 hours but what they do is they say the time you work per week in the contract is 38 hours or so an then they give you 10 extra days off to compenstate that. Thre is no badging in and out and the reality is that they're all workking over 35 hours if not far more (corporate people) - no one is enforcing that at least.
When I worked full time, before maternity leave and all that, I was one of those people. You also have to take into consideration the age - my colleagues and I - all in our twenties or early thirties didn't have much to do at home anyway. Work and after-work hanging with the same people (lol) was just a way of living. Once you start a family all these things e.g. climbing the corporate ladder and setting some career goals not only seem unimportant, they bother you. Of course, if you're the main breadwinner of the family the situation is a bit different and you have to put up with things you don't necessarily like and keep looking at the bigger picture - (relative) safety of the job, savings for retirement, kids' studies (how do we know they'll like to do their studies here and not somewhere else where the costs are higher?) etc etc etc
Everybody knows their strategy and plans, it's funny how people refuse to accept there are different views on pretty much everything.

Last edited by greenmount; 17.05.2018 at 08:47.
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  #71  
Old 17.05.2018, 09:40
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Re: Is the standard work week here really 42.5 hours?

What I have often found, and which has not been mentioned so far, is that 40h work weeks mean 4 weeks off, while 42.5h weeks will give you 5 weeks off in most companies.
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  #72  
Old 17.05.2018, 21:33
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Re: Is the standard work week here really 42.5 hours?

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What I have often found, and which has not been mentioned so far, is that 40h work weeks mean 4 weeks off, while 42.5h weeks will give you 5 weeks off in most companies.
This I must tell my boss, as we work 42.5 hours a week and only get 4 weeks holidays...

We also all badge in and out. Because we got inspected by the Workplace Police soon after the rules came in and they said It Is The Law Now.

Our company is in Zurich.

Personally, I still take no notice of the actual time I work so it's probably more like 45 plus hours a week.

Regards


Ian
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  #73  
Old 17.05.2018, 22:12
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Re: Is the standard work week here really 42.5 hours?

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What I have often found, and which has not been mentioned so far, is that 40h work weeks mean 4 weeks off, while 42.5h weeks will give you 5 weeks off in most companies.
Not generally. Depends on the company.
Often once one turns 50 they get 5 weeks a year.
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Old 18.05.2018, 16:12
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Re: Is the standard work week here really 42.5 hours?

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Not generally. Depends on the company.
Often once one turns 50 they get 5 weeks a year.
Hmmm... YET another word with my boss required...
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