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  #61  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:32
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

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If you get a new Rahmenfrist, is the amount you are entitled to recalculated?
Yes.

Tom
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  #62  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:54
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

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If you get a new Rahmenfrist, is the amount you are entitled to recalculated?
Of course as the pay out is based on the amount of insurance premium you paid when working. The great thing is the monthly amount is not capped & it's based on the last 6 months earnings so quite possible to have an insured salary higher than earnings over the year. The calculation method was changed to make it more difficult for occasional workers, as they assume day rates are lower than employee salaries
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  #63  
Old 17.02.2018, 17:37
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

A very interesting discussion.
I noticed most of the posts are quite old, but I hope someone is still paying attention to this.

I read that you need to work for 12 months in the period of 2 years, and you can count time working in EU/EFTA countries.
My current boss gave me an open contract which granted me a B Visa. But recently she told me she would not keep me for the next season (it's a hotel that is open only for the summer and winter season). By the end of this season I would have 4 months on this employment.
I have worked a bit in Switzerland in September, just for 3 weeks, horribly paid, picking grapes, and I wasn't even registered as living in Switzerland.
Before that I did a seasonal job in Norway for 2 months and 3 weeks. That was June until 21st of August.
Before that I was on the dole in Ireland from early January until late May.
And before that I had several jobs in Ireland - most paying taxes properly, but some cash in hand.
If I count back two years I have over 12 months of tax paying work (Ireland, Norway and Switzerland).

Does that mean I can receive the unemployment benefit here in Switzerland? (to be honest I believe I should be able to land a job when the summer season starts, so it should be just a couple of months of benefit anyway)
Does the fact that I was on the benefit in Ireland (from January until May) affects negatively my outcome for the benefit in Switzerland (as the tax paying work came before that, and after that I have only about 8 months of tax paying work)?

If I can receive the benefit, how is the 6 months calculated? As I would have been getting 3.7k for the last 4 months, but the 2 months prior to that I wasn't working at all. Does it count the previous 60 days of employment instead? And if so, does it count outsider Switzerland as well? (in this case would it be: 4 months from the current job + 3 weeks of picking grapes + 1 months and a week of my job in Norway?)

I saw the necessary documents and one of them was about my health insurance. Since this last time in Switzerland (I left the country after the grape picking job as I couldn't afford to sustain myself as an unemployed in Switzerland) has been less than 3 months so far (I complete 3 months in the end of February) I was still only using my EHIC (I read that up to 3 months you don't need to get yourself insured). Should I get myself insured in the end of this month, or since I am ending my occupation I don't need to? Would I not be able to receive unemployment benefit if I am still only relying on the EHIC?

If I do get the benefit, could I move? I am currently living (because of work) in a very small village, and I think I would improve my chances of finding work (and reduce my costs to go to a RAV office as often as necessary) if I move to the nearest town.

Sorry for so many questions. I have been reading everything I can about it since I was informed by my boss, and I really feel like I need to know that (plus with my current employment and where I live I have no chance to go to the nearest RAV to just ask my questions...I'm hoping for a Monday off or something to do that).
Thank you so much in advance!
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  #64  
Old 17.02.2018, 19:01
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

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I saw the necessary documents and one of them was about my health insurance. Since this last time in Switzerland (I left the country after the grape picking job as I couldn't afford to sustain myself as an unemployed in Switzerland) has been less than 3 months so far (I complete 3 months in the end of February) I was still only using my EHIC (I read that up to 3 months you don't need to get yourself insured). Should I get myself insured in the end of this month, or since I am ending my occupation I don't need to? Would I not be able to receive unemployment benefit if I am still only relying on the EHIC?
If you work here you need health insurance and not only your EHIC card. As long as you intend to stay here you need that insurance.

And yes, you need insurance from day 1, not only after 3 months.
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  #65  
Old 17.02.2018, 19:11
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

And since you've registered as being a resident (B permit) any health insurance will also be backdated to that date - and you'll have to pay for 3 months in one hit.

I wouldn't mention the 3 weeks since you were working illegally as you hadn't registered so that can't be taken into any calculations.
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  #66  
Old 17.02.2018, 20:03
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

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And since you've registered as being a resident (B permit) any health insurance will also be backdated to that date - and you'll have to pay for 3 months in one hit.

I wouldn't mention the 3 weeks since you were working illegally as you hadn't registered so that can't be taken into any calculations.
That is very strange. I went to buy insurance on day one. I showed all the information I found on the EHIC page, and the person selling insurance told me that in this case I didn't have to buy insurance, but if I decide to stay longer than only the winter season I should get Swiss insurance.
I would imagine he would know what he's doing...
It seems rather unfair to have to pay retroactive for insurance when I obviously didn't use it (I had to go to a doctor a few days ago and paid from my own pocket to do so...).


I'm not sure that 3 weeks were illegal. My employer even registered me and I got an EVS/AHV card. I have a payslip from that job, and had many deductions.
Still, the calculation is the last six months I was WORKING in the last 2 years? Would it count the 4 months of the current job and then jump back to July/2017, when I was working in Norway?
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  #67  
Old 17.02.2018, 20:21
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

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It seems rather unfair to have to pay retroactive for insurance when I obviously didn't use it (I had to go to a doctor a few days ago and paid from my own pocket to do so...).
That is the basic idea about insurance, you pay also when you do not need it. Imagine the other way around? Nothing unfair about that.
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  #68  
Old 17.02.2018, 20:26
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

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I'm not sure that 3 weeks were illegal. My employer even registered me and I got an EVS/AHV card. I have a payslip from that job, and had many deductions.
Still, the calculation is the last six months I was WORKING in the last 2 years? Would it count the 4 months of the current job and then jump back to July/2017, when I was working in Norway?
To obtain Swiss unemployment compensation based on work in an EU/ EEA country, an applicant needs to obtain a U1 form. This appears to be the application form for Norway (English):

https://www.nav.no/_attachment/805329615

This RAV St. Gallen brochure gives an overview of the process, duties and benefits of unemployment compensation in Switzerland:

https://www.awa.sg.ch/home/arbeitslo...7_englisch.pdf

Consider searching further on the English Forum board for additional information on RAV and unemployment compensation.
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  #69  
Old 17.02.2018, 20:41
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

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That is the basic idea about insurance, you pay also when you do not need it. Imagine the other way around? Nothing unfair about that.
No, what I meant was not "pay even thought I WON'T need it", but "pay when I DIDN'T need it (and couldn't have used it even if I needed it)
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Old 17.02.2018, 20:44
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

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That is very strange. I went to buy insurance on day one. I showed all the information I found on the EHIC page, and the person selling insurance told me that in this case I didn't have to buy insurance, but if I decide to stay longer than only the winter season I should get Swiss insurance.
I would imagine he would know what he's doing...
It seems rather unfair to have to pay retroactive for insurance when I obviously didn't use it (I had to go to a doctor a few days ago and paid from my own pocket to do so...).


I'm not sure that 3 weeks were illegal. My employer even registered me and I got an EVS/AHV card. I have a payslip from that job, and had many deductions.
Still, the calculation is the last six months I was WORKING in the last 2 years? Would it count the 4 months of the current job and then jump back to July/2017, when I was working in Norway?
And you can claim those doctor expenses back when you arrange your health insurance - it works both ways. You are covered by Swiss health insurance the moment you register as being a resident here - whether you've arranged cover yet or not. But because of that you also have to pay for those months of health insurance you were covered for. That is why the advice here is not to leave it until the 3 months have almost run out because you then get a big initial invoice for your premiums from your insurers.

If you didn't register as being a resident then you were working illegally. Only residents can work here. As far as I know your employer can't register you - you have to do it yourself as an EU national. And if you entered as a non-EU you were definitely working illegally since any permit has to be pre-approved by the Swiss authorities.
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  #71  
Old 17.02.2018, 21:02
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

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If you didn't register as being a resident then you were working illegally. Only residents can work here. As far as I know your employer can't register you - you have to do it yourself as an EU national. And if you entered as a non-EU you were definitely working illegally since any permit has to be pre-approved by the Swiss authorities.
I'm sorry, I know you certainly know more than me, but isn't there something like up to 3 months EU can just work here, without doing anything extra? You see, he did ask for my Italian passport, and he did got me an AVS/AHV card. Very confusing...

And about insurance, I found the info I had here:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...road/e111.html

"If you are an EU/EEA national and are travelling or staying temporarily in another state of the European Economic Area (EEA) or Switzerland, you are entitled to receive medical care if you become ill or have an accident."
"The European Health Insurance Card (EHIC)"... "is evidence that you are part of a health insurance scheme administered by another state in the EEA/Switzerland. "
"Currently, the EEA comprises the 28 member states of the European Union together with Iceland, Norway and Liechtenstein. Your European Health Insurance Card is valid for use throughout any of these countries and in Switzerland."
"Where can I use my European Health Insurance Card?
In any EU/EEA Country and in Switzerland."
"Each European Health Insurance Card will be valid throughout the EEA and Switzerland for up to 4 years."
"The European Health Insurance Card will not cover you for health care in any country outside the EEA, with the exception of Switzerland."

And on this page:
https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list...ml#switzerland

"Switzerland

Charges
Under Swiss law, which requires cost-participation by the insured person for healthcare, those on a temporary stay in Switzerland needing healthcare must pay a flat rate contribution of CHF92 for adults and CHF33 for children for each month of treatment, to Gemeinsame Einrichtung KVG."


Do you understand why I'm so confused? To me it seem like contradictory information. Maybe I'm just missunderstanding something here...
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  #72  
Old 17.02.2018, 21:05
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

are travelling or staying temporarily in

There are regulations for working ONLY 3 months and then returning to your home country, which wasnīt your intention and didnīt do. Different ballgame as you are not travelling nor staying temporarily.
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Old 17.02.2018, 21:09
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

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Still, the calculation is the last six months I was WORKING in the last 2 years?
No, the last six months (or one year, whickever gives the higher average).

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Would it count the 4 months of the current job and then jump back to July/2017, when I was working in Norway?
Only if you do the 12 month calculation.

Tom
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Old 17.02.2018, 21:12
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

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No, what I meant was not "pay even thought I WON'T need it", but "pay when I DIDN'T need it (and couldn't have used it even if I needed it)
Alas, it became the law 22 years ago (before then, insurance was optional, I didn't have it for the first several years that I lived here).

Tom
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Old 17.02.2018, 21:12
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

Just calculate in the bill for the health insurance that you will need to pay.
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Old 17.02.2018, 21:14
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

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are travelling or staying temporarily in

There are regulations for working ONLY 3 months and then returning to your home country, which wasnīt your intention and didnīt do. Different ballgame as you are not travelling nor staying temporarily.
Aaaah, I think I understand now.
I didn't complete full 3 months here yet, so the "didn't do" part is not exactly correct. But I will stay the full FOUR months for my work, that's true.
I think I got things a bit arseways. I was under the impression that the first 3 months in Switzerland were "insurance-free" if I had EHIC, and after that I would have to stop relying on EHIC and pay proper Swiss insurance. In this case I would sort my insurance until the end of this month and it would all be fine and start paying from March onwards. It seems like I got it wrong, yeah?
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Old 17.02.2018, 21:18
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

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No, the last six months (or one year, whickever gives the higher average).



Only if you do the 12 month calculation.

Tom

Ok, so it is calculated by the calendar time. Six actual months, not six months of work. So I guess I would indeed have to calculate the whole year, as two of the months are basically zero.
Altho in those 12 months I will have 4 months in Switzerland and 2 months and 3 weeks in Norway. So I imagine the remaining 4 months and a week would be zero. Is that correct?
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Old 17.02.2018, 21:19
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

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Just calculate in the bill for the health insurance that you will need to pay.
Sorry, I didn't understand your message. Would it be possible to rephrase it?
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  #79  
Old 17.02.2018, 21:23
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

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Aaaah, I think I understand now.
I didn't complete full 3 months here yet, so the "didn't do" part is not exactly correct. But I will stay the full FOUR months for my work, that's true.
I think I got things a bit arseways. I was under the impression that the first 3 months in Switzerland were "insurance-free" if I had EHIC, and after that I would have to stop relying on EHIC and pay proper Swiss insurance. In this case I would sort my insurance until the end of this month and it would all be fine and start paying from March onwards. It seems like I got it wrong, yeah?
Yes, you got that wrong but you still will have to pay as from the date you got here
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Old 17.02.2018, 21:37
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Re: Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

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I'm sorry, I know you certainly know more than me, but isn't there something like up to 3 months EU can just work here, without doing anything extra? You see, he did ask for my Italian passport, and he did got me an AVS/AHV card. Very confusing...
No, there's a short notification procedure whereby EU employers sending posted workers here or self-employed people providing a service here can work for up to 90 days a year, but that's all.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...verfahren.html

Whether he could use that for you I don't know.
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