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  #21  
Old 03.07.2012, 00:17
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

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Well, I work from my home computer -- and only about 15 hours per week -- for him, so maybe that's why I don't have insurance through him? Obviously, I find this accident insurance thing quite confusing. So I really do appreciate all the advice on here! Even my Swiss husband was unsure about much of it.
If you work 15 hours for him, not only does he have to contract occupational accident insurance (Berufsunfall or "BU" in Swiss-German insurance speak) even if you only are employed for one hour per week, but he also has to take out non-occupational accident insurance (Nichtberufsunfall AKA "NBU") if you work more than 15 hours per week. He can deduct the cost for that from your salary. If you already have taken out NBU (anyone who is not in employent does have to do that, usually through their health insurance), the two insurance companies thrash out who pays how much.

But the bottom line is: you have to have it, there's no opt-out, unless you are officially self-employed. Be aware that if you actually are a dependent contractor, you and your employer will be made to pay missing contributions if caught - run this through Google Translate.
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  #22  
Old 03.07.2012, 00:20
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

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Am I understanding this correctly - I should carry accident insurance for any plumber, electrician, repairman, etc. who is working in my home?

Are these folks not covered under their own company's insurance?

Seriously worried now...
No. Don't worry yet!!

I know we had it for our cleaning woman and it covered, baby sitters, handymen, gardeners, etc is if you hire an individual and not a company. So, plumbers, electricians probably wouldn't count. I guess most of them work through companies.

If you pay them through the "cheques-emploi" system you are contributing their social contributions plus contributing to their accident insurance.
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Old 03.07.2012, 00:38
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

Phew! Almost had a heart attack there...

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"cheques-emploi" system
This is very interesting...

I see though that this is only available in the Romandie. Is there a similar system in the German-speaking cantons (specifically SZ)?
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  #24  
Old 03.07.2012, 00:56
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

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Phew! Almost had a heart attack there...
This is very interesting...

I see though that this is only available in the Romandie. Is there a similar system in the German-speaking cantons (specifically SZ)?
Not sure. I can't imagine they don't. If you look on the c-e site, there is at least one document in German for the Fribourg crowd. Maybe that could give you a hint at what it could be called over there.
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  #25  
Old 03.07.2012, 01:31
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

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(specifically SZ)?
Let's see. What does Canton Schwyz offer that makes it an attractive place to live there?

Why yes, low taxes.

Schools aren't really that good.
Taxes are pretty low though.

Indoor pools, sports facilities are provided in neighboring Cantons LU, ZH, SG.
But there's not a lot of tax to pay.

Public services generally are pared down to a minimum.
Did I mention low taxes?

Seriously, Cheques-service are so Suisse Romande. If they were any more Suisse Romande than that, they'd be France outright. No such thing in German-speaking Switzerland (and certainly not SZ), you have to work out that stuff by yourself.
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  #26  
Old 03.07.2012, 02:02
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

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No such thing in German-speaking Switzerland (and certainly not SZ), you have to work out that stuff by yourself.


(Didn't think so, in the land of 'den eigenen Weg finden'... but never hurts to ask. Ask here, that is. )
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  #27  
Old 03.07.2012, 02:33
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

FFS, the woman just wants a night out for dinner and a movie, does she REALLY need to get insurance for someone to come watch TV while the baby sleeps?
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  #28  
Old 03.07.2012, 12:41
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

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FFS, the woman just wants a night out for dinner and a movie, does she REALLY need to get insurance for someone to come watch TV while the baby sleeps?
Surprisingly, yes. But the beauty of the non-occupational accident insurance for people who work less than 8 hours per week is that it covers everyone working for you, up to a combined salary of several KCHF per year (don't have the exact figure right now). So you take it out once, costs CHF 100 for one calendar year, and you're done with it for every babysitter, cleaner, gardener, handyman that works for you (as opposed to "who works for someone else, such as an agency or a gardening business, who sends them to work in your house"). You don't even have to name them in the insurance contract.

Apart from the legal issues, it's also a very good idea to have occupational accident insurance. If your babysitter falls of your sofa while watching the telly and gets hurt, chances are the health insurance will come after you for the medical bills. That's where your insurance comes in.
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  #29  
Old 03.07.2012, 13:50
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

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FFS, the woman just wants a night out for dinner and a movie, does she REALLY need to get insurance for someone to come watch TV while the baby sleeps?
actually, I think she wants someone to come in and watch the baby (in a semi-regular basis) so she can work while working from home rather than take care of the baby and try and work from home...unless I missed something
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  #30  
Old 03.07.2012, 13:59
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

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actually, I think she wants someone to come in and watch the baby (in a semi-regular basis) so she can work while working from home rather than take care of the baby and try and work from home...unless I missed something
Yes, but I'd also need someone, at some point, to watch him if we want to go to the cinema, etc. But mainly, it would be during the day so I can get some work done. This *&%$ addicting forum doesn't help! :P
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  #31  
Old 05.07.2012, 19:32
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

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Phew! Almost had a heart attack there...



This is very interesting...

I see though that this is only available in the Romandie. Is there a similar system in the German-speaking cantons (specifically SZ)?
There is such a service for the German-speaking cantons. It's called quitt.ch and has been mentioned in this thread already. I hereby also state that I am working for this company.

Since there seems to be a lot of confusion about this topic, I rewrite all necessary legal information (for employments in private households):
  • Social Security Contributions are mandatory from the first franc paid as salary (except for employees under 18 or above retirement age)
  • Occupational accident insurance is mandatory and has to be paid by the employer. It usually costs CHF 100.- / year, our solution is proportional to the salary (0.61%).
  • Non-Occupational accident insurance is mandatory if the employee works 8 hours or more per week (in average) for the same employer. The costs can be deducted from the employee's salary. Also, the employee does not have to pay for non-occupational accident insurance at his health insurance anymore.
  • The mentioned simplified registration works for monthly salaries up to CHF 1740.-. If the salary exceeds this limit, pension fund contributions apply (if the employee is 18 or older).
  • If the employee does not have a permit "C" or Swiss Citizenship, usually tax at source has to be paid as well by the employer. The simplified registration already includes tax at source.
  • Depending on the nationality of the employee, a work permit has be obtained.
  • Electricians, plumbers, etc... are usually working for a company or are self-employed. In this case you don't have to worry about any of these things.
This should summarize it.
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  #32  
Old 05.07.2012, 20:05
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

I think that does clarify a lot. I'm glad the the German part also have a "cheque-emploi' thing. It's very easy to get everything settled that way, both for the employer and the employee.

Also, it seems we have been confusing two thing that "Quitt" has clarified:
Occupational insurance and Non-Occcupational insurance.

Now, although I'm a fan of the Cheque systems I'm not sure why an electrician or plumber can be self employed but not a cleaner or gardener etc?

We used to use a cleaner who was "self-employed" but now it seems that this is being discouraged and we as the employer are being required to pay these "allocations" which we don't have to do for self-employed electricians, plumbers, etc.
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Old 05.07.2012, 20:15
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

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Now, although I'm a fan of the Cheque systems I'm not sure why an electrician or plumber can be self employed but not a cleaner or gardener etc?

We used to use a cleaner who was "self-employed" but now it seems that this is being discouraged and we as the employer are being required to pay these "allocations" which we don't have to do for self-employed electricians, plumbers, etc.
A cleaner can also be self-employed, but it is very difficult to achieve this status. According to SVA Zurich, to achieve this status you need to provide your own cleaning utilities and your own company car. Basically you need your own company. Since most of the cleaners don't fulfill these conditions, they must be employed.
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  #34  
Old 05.07.2012, 20:38
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

Quitt.ch is not cheques-service. It's esentially a (private sector) payroll services provider for private employers. For an 8.4% commission, they do the paperwork for you. Not bad, but, again, cheque service it ain't.

Also, shouldn't those posts be in "commercial"?
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I think that does clarify a lot. I'm glad the the German part also have a "cheque-emploi' thing. It's very easy to get everything settled that way, both for the employer and the employee.

Also, it seems we have been confusing two thing that "Quitt" has clarified:
Occupational insurance and Non-Occcupational insurance.

Now, although I'm a fan of the Cheque systems I'm not sure why an electrician or plumber can be self employed but not a cleaner or gardener etc?

We used to use a cleaner who was "self-employed" but now it seems that this is being discouraged and we as the employer are being required to pay these "allocations" which we don't have to do for self-employed electricians, plumbers, etc.
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Old 05.07.2012, 20:40
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

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There is such a service for the German-speaking cantons. It's called quitt.ch and has been mentioned in this thread already. I hereby also state that I am working for this company.

Since there seems to be a lot of confusion about this topic, I rewrite all necessary legal information (for employments in private households):
  • Social Security Contributions are mandatory from the first franc paid as salary (except for employees under 18 or above retirement age)
  • Occupational accident insurance is mandatory and has to be paid by the employer. It usually costs CHF 100.- / year, our solution is proportional to the salary (0.61%).
  • Non-Occupational accident insurance is mandatory if the employee works 8 hours or more per week (in average) for the same employer. The costs can be deducted from the employee's salary. Also, the employee does not have to pay for non-occupational accident insurance at his health insurance anymore.
  • The mentioned simplified registration works for monthly salaries up to CHF 1740.-. If the salary exceeds this limit, pension fund contributions apply (if the employee is 18 or older).
  • If the employee does not have a permit "C" or Swiss Citizenship, usually tax at source has to be paid as well by the employer. The simplified registration already includes tax at source.
  • Depending on the nationality of the employee, a work permit has be obtained.
  • Electricians, plumbers, etc... are usually working for a company or are self-employed. In this case you don't have to worry about any of these things.
This should summarize it.
Thanks!
So just to be clear here... If I have someone come babysit for me for less than 8 hours per week, at a rate of (for example) 15 CHF per hour:

1. We would need to deduct social security contributions from her pay

2. We would have to provide Occupational accident insurance (but do NOT have to provide Non-Occupational accident insurance)

3. If the sitter is not a Swiss citizen, then she must have a C permit (and cannot have only a B permit?)

4. We would have to obtain and provide for her a work permit?

This is a RIDICULOUSLY complex country!

Okay, this leads me to a question...

What if I just wanted a friend to come babysit for a few hours? Is THAT legal? My god, I would hope so......
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  #36  
Old 05.07.2012, 20:53
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

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Quitt.ch is not cheques-service. It's esentially a (private sector) payroll services provider for private employers. For an 8.4% commission, they do the paperwork for you. Not bad, but, again, cheque service it ain't.

Also, shouldn't those posts be in "commercial"?
The cheques-emploi takes a 4% admin fee with a 10CHF minimum per cheque. I'm not sure what the difference is.

Although I have to admit I didn't really think about the fact that it could be a commercial business. I never looked into that aspect. My last cleaning lady used it and it was easy so I just went with it.
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Old 05.07.2012, 21:15
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Re: Questions regarding legal issues when using a babysitter

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Thanks!
So just to be clear here... If I have someone come babysit for me for less than 8 hours per week, at a rate of (for example) 15 CHF per hour:

1. We would need to deduct social security contributions from her pay

2. We would have to provide Occupational accident insurance (but do NOT have to provide Non-Occupational accident insurance)

3. If the sitter is not a Swiss citizen, then she must have a C permit (and cannot have only a B permit?)

4. We would have to obtain and provide for her a work permit?

This is a RIDICULOUSLY complex country!

Okay, this leads me to a question...

What if I just wanted a friend to come babysit for a few hours? Is THAT legal? My god, I would hope so......
The sitter can have a B permit (or even G or L permit). The difference is that the employer in this case needs to take care of tax at source. With the simplified procedure however this is taken care of (in most cantons... as usual there are exceptions).

If your friend babysits for a few hours and the main purpose is to help you out, and not earning money, then it's fine. It's even fine if you give her a bottle of wine or invite her to dinner. The exact words in German you can find here (Freundschaftsdienst und Nachbarschaftshilfe).
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