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Old 25.07.2012, 18:33
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Doctor's certificate ( mobbing at work )

Hi all

If there is a mental stress in the workplace (mobbing) and needs to go to a docter for some days off, what kind of things need to bring with? How long will the docter normally agree to certify the so-called "Arbeitsunfähigkeit" certificate? Will the doctor also have to write a letter or something like a report describing your problem?

Thanks very much for any experience-sharings!
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Old 25.07.2012, 18:42
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Re: Docter's certificate

Sorry you are having a bad time at work. The reply to your answer is that it depends very much on your doctor.

However, will it solve the problem? The situation won't change even if you have a few days off. When you get back they might start all over again, and possibly worse as you have had time off because of it, so they might see that as a 'weakness', I am sorry to say.


You need to find a permanent solution to this, somehow. Talk to HR perhaps. Or start looking for a new job NOW. Bonne chance.
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Old 26.07.2012, 12:50
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Re: Docter's certificate

Thank you very much Odile.
I'm looking for a new job already. The contract will be over at the end of August. The arrogent boss really made me sick and demotivited, bad sleeping, no appetite... really need to see a doctor. Will the doctor first have a health check and then decide how long he will sign the certificate?
Thanks!
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Old 26.07.2012, 13:05
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Re: Docter's certificate

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Thank you very much Odile.
I'm looking for a new job already. The contract will be over at the end of August. The arrogent boss really made me sick and demotivited, bad sleeping, no appetite... really need to see a doctor. Will the doctor first have a health check and then decide how long he will sign the certificate?
Thanks!
Be aware if you have given notice or been given notice under a contract, and then you are ill, the notice period will not end in Aughst but will extend.
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Old 26.07.2012, 14:10
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Re: Docter's certificate

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Will the doctor first have a health check and then decide how long he will sign the certificate?
As opposed to what? Offering you x days off on a "sicko" without regard to how well or unwell you actually are?
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Old 26.07.2012, 14:17
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Re: Docter's certificate

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Sorry you are having a bad time at work. The reply to your answer is that it depends very much on your doctor.

However, will it solve the problem? The situation won't change even if you have a few days off. When you get back they might start all over again, and possibly worse as you have had time off because of it, so they might see that as a 'weakness', I am sorry to say.


You need to find a permanent solution to this, somehow. Talk to HR perhaps. Or start looking for a new job NOW. Bonne chance.
About "The reply to your answer is that it depends very much on your doctor."

Indeed! For one extreme the doctor might decide you have burn-out & sign you off for months or the other extreme might decide it is nothing.
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Old 26.07.2012, 14:34
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Re: Doctor's certificate ( mobbing at work )

Please notes however, that notes/letters, etc from foreign doctors will not be acceptable (as we have had cases mentioned here before) and that your employer will have the right to question this and demand a second opinion from a doctor appointment by themselves. Hope you find a better way to deal with this.
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Old 26.07.2012, 14:55
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Re: Doctor's certificate ( mobbing at work )

I saw my doc., explained my symptoms - difficulty making everyday decisions, sleeping problems, anxiety. He gave me a sicknote for three weeks. Simples.

It enabled me to get my head together, and so I was able to deal with the stress of work much better on my return. As my idiot boss tried to schedule a meeting for my appraisal during my time off due to stree, it also helped improve my final severance package.
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Old 26.07.2012, 20:21
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Re: Doctor's certificate ( mobbing at work )

Thank you very much for all your kind replies!

I'm really suffering from work for already several months. My arrogent, bully boss has been very fussy about my work and critisizes me rudely. Actually I did a good job, the reason why she behaves herself like this to me is that she thinks she pays me too much. She said to me several times that she can find someone else for a lower salary and can also do a good job as well.

I have another question: Till end of August I still have the right to take several days holidays, I don't know if I need to take my holidays first or go to a doctor first. I don't want to be mobbed by her any more! Can anyone help me with some suggestions?
Thanks!
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Old 27.07.2012, 09:15
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Re: Doctor's certificate ( mobbing at work )

Yes, first let's call it what it is: bullying not mobbing whatever that is. If it's that bad and you don't feel her complaints about your work are justified then you should tell your HR person/department if you have one. Bullies aren't to be tolerated anywhere and unless people make a stand against it, it will just keep happening. Complain to your HR and they should investigate. Even if you are leaving in August do it; you may be entitled to compensation for the stress this situation has caused you.
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Old 27.07.2012, 09:32
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Re: Doctor's certificate ( mobbing at work )

Mobbing is a word in German and Italian which means "workplace bullying". As it sounds English, many people assume it is English - but it isn't. (The word does exist in English, but with a different meaning).

You should see your doctor as soon as possible. Would you wait if your left arm was about to fall off? Mental health is a serious as physical health.

I've written elsewhere on this forum about how to deal with workplace bullying - having experienced it, handled it, and got the compensation. (I now have a great job, with more money and flexibility, and those morons who attempted to get me to resign are stuck in the same jobs (or slightly worse) that they had seven/eight years ago).

Briefly, take notes after every meeting, document every perceived abuse and unfairness. Talk to an employment lawyer - employee protection is light in Switzerland, but it does exist. Accept that your job is over - what matters now is exiting in the best way.
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Old 27.07.2012, 11:20
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Re: Docter's certificate

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Be aware if you have given notice or been given notice under a contract, and then you are ill, the notice period will not end in Aughst but will extend.
And your company will have to continue to pay you a salary!
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Old 29.07.2012, 11:03
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Re: Doctor's certificate ( mobbing at work )

Thanks very much for all your kind help!

Yes, I think I need to find an employment lawyer. I have no ideas how should I start... Normally how much is required if taking a legal route? Thanks.
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Old 29.07.2012, 12:41
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Re: Doctor's certificate ( mobbing at work )

Go see your doctor first and get the stress leave. Calm down, and then during your time off sort out the legal stuff.
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Old 04.08.2012, 10:48
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Re: Doctor's certificate ( mobbing at work )

Thanks for all the useful tips!

So I went to a doctor, I explained my stress at work and my symptoms: can't sleep at night, feel dread when thinking of work, anxiety...He was a bit reluctant to sign me a sicknote. He admitted that I was sick but he was kind of afraid of getting any trouble with my boss. At last he gave me a sicknote for only one week. Is it normal?

So my notice period will have to be extended for one month later (to the end of September), I'm told. My questions are: Do I have to work in this extended month (I suppose so.) What if our both sides don't want to work together any more? What does my chance look like if I sue my boss for her ill treatment to me? I don't have much writen evidence unfortunately, She has been insulting me verbally. Is it worthwhile when I take the legal route?

Thanks again!
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Old 04.08.2012, 11:11
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Re: Doctor's certificate ( mobbing at work )

You will probably have to actually work through your notice. Have you already given notice? It's highly unlikely that you will win a lawsuit against your boss. So sad as it may be your best bet if just to find another job and move on.



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Mobbing is a word in German and Italian which means "workplace bullying".
It's also called mobbing in French.
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Old 04.08.2012, 11:18
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Re: Doctor's certificate ( mobbing at work )

Quote:
Please notes however, that notes/letters, etc from foreign doctors will not be acceptable (as we have had cases mentioned here before) and that your employer will have the right to question this and demand a second opinion from a doctor appointment by themselves. Hope you find a better way to deal with this.

careful, my emloyer a large multi national in CH does accept foreign doctors certificates providing it is in 1 of the national languages of CH or english of course.
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Old 04.08.2012, 13:49
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Re: Doctor's certificate ( mobbing at work )

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careful, my emloyer a large multi national in CH does accept foreign doctors certificates providing it is in 1 of the national languages of CH or english of course.
A former colleague fell quite ill whilst back home in the UK on vacation and was still sick by the time she was due to return to Switzerland. She had to see a Doctor several times during her stay.

The Doctor strongly advised against flying back in her condition and wrote this on the medical certificate she was issued with.

Her employers, also a multinational company, were absolutely fine with the UK issued medical certificate and credited her back with all of the holiday days lost.
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Old 04.08.2012, 13:52
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Re: Docter's certificate

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S

However, will it solve the problem? The situation won't change even if you have a few days off. When you get back they might start all over again, and possibly worse as you have had time off because of it, so they might see that as a 'weakness', I am sorry to say.


You need to find a permanent solution to this, somehow. Talk to HR perhaps. Or start looking for a new job NOW. Bonne chance.
I agree. This is highly immoral and it is called malingering. Very very bad practice that will come back to bite you one day. Just look for another job.
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Old 04.08.2012, 13:58
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Re: Doctor's certificate ( mobbing at work )

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A former colleague fell quite ill whilst back home in the UK on vacation and was still sick by the time she was due to return to Switzerland. She had to see a Doctor several times during her stay.

The Doctor strongly advised against flying back in her condition and wrote this on the medical certificate she was issued with.

Her employers, also a multinational company, were absolutely fine with the UK issued medical certificate and credited her back with all of the holiday days lost.

Depends very much on the illness, and the country of origin of the Certificate. Depression due to 'bullying' is a different matter than, say pneumonia or a heart attack. Whatever happens, your employer in CH is entitled to request an independent assessment by a doctor of their choice. They are not entitled to know the exact medical detail - but they can get confirmation or negation, of the cause of illness.
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