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Old 28.07.2012, 09:29
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Junior vs Senior Developer

Does anyone know if the definition of a junior vs senior developer is different in Switzerland than in the UK and the US? The reason I am asking is because I have been offered a position as a junior developer in Switzerland and am wondering if I'd be selling myself short by accepting that kind of position given my profile?

Age: 27
Degree: M.Sc in Comp Science
Experience: 3 years commercial developer experience (2009-2012), team leader since 2011.

I personally would say I am somewhere in between junior and senior (e.g. intermediate) and I am concerned that the title of "junior" would hold me back in my career. Any opinions?
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Old 29.07.2012, 13:54
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

Given that you've been working as Team Leader, by definition can't qualify as Junior. Furthermore, being able to get to team leading in just 2 years, you must have been an above average person. At the end of the day, given the information you gave us, I'd say you're selling yourself short.
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Old 29.07.2012, 18:38
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

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Given that you've been working as Team Leader, by definition can't qualify as Junior. Furthermore, being able to get to team leading in just 2 years, you must have been an above average person. At the end of the day, given the information you gave us, I'd say you're selling yourself short.
OK, that's what I thought. The employer is insisting that the actual definition of "junior" is different in Switzerland which I suspected was not true. I'm glad you confirmed my suspicions, thanks.
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Old 29.07.2012, 18:49
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

The difficult part for me at the moment is that I am right in between junior and senior level I feel i.e. too experienced for junior roles but most likely not experienced enough to be offered team leading roles at new companies as they all require 3-5 years of team leading experience.
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Old 29.07.2012, 18:59
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

3years experience is along way short of being senior! There are absolutely different definitions and leading a team for less then 1year does not make you a senior without giving some idea of team size, company size etc. these definitions vary by country, company etc
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Old 29.07.2012, 19:18
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

I would say giving your experience, the only way I would employ as a Senior Engineer/Team Leader was if you could demonstrate the the time spent during your PHD included a lot of industry relevant experience.

As regards accepting a junior job, why not, if you have confidence in your ability then promotion should come swiftly, if not then at least you have a foothold from to make the next step. It depends if you wanting to move to Switzerland or are just wanting to change job.
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Old 29.07.2012, 19:40
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

Thanks for the responses. Just to clarify, I wasn't saying I was a "senior" - just that I feel I am definitely above junior and that I am worried a title as such will hold me back if I accept the offer. I also wasn't saying I am demanding that I be employed as a team leader right away, I understand this requires extensive experience first - it's the word "junior" that stings. I'll have to have a big think...
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Old 29.07.2012, 19:47
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

In my experience Swiss companies use junior more or less as a synonym of cheap.

With 3 years of experience you probably don't qualify as Junior or Senior, but rather as 'plain' Developer.
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Old 29.07.2012, 20:36
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

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In my experience Swiss companies use junior more or less as a synonym of cheap.

With 3 years of experience you probably don't qualify as Junior or Senior, but rather as 'plain' Developer.
OK, good info. Perhaps I could make a counter-offer and suggest that they drop "junior" from the title?
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Old 29.07.2012, 20:44
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

Titles are all BS, I have old business cards lying around that referred to me as a 'senior' engineer back when I was 25 (though I probably was).

Hell, I neither know nor care what my current title is!

(though I'm pretty sure it's director of something)

Tom
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Old 29.07.2012, 20:50
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

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Titles are all BS, I have old business cards lying around that referred to me as a 'senior' engineer back when I was 25 (though I probably was).

Hell, I neither know nor care what my current title is!

(though I'm pretty sure it's director of something)

Tom
But at least your senior title at 25 was BS but in the right direction
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Old 29.07.2012, 21:03
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

Junior really means salary level. They recruit "junior" because
they do not want to pay as much. As far as work goes, it is
pretty much the same unless you are manager.
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Old 29.07.2012, 22:37
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

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Junior really means salary level. They recruit "junior" because
they do not want to pay as much. As far as work goes, it is
pretty much the same unless you are manager.
I see. In that case it might not be worth trying to get the title changed...
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Old 29.07.2012, 23:38
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

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I see. In that case it might not be worth trying to get the title changed...
Probably not. Where is the job Zürich?

Switzerland has a great lifestyle with many benefits.
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Old 30.07.2012, 00:15
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

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Titles are all BS, I have old business cards lying around that referred to me as a 'senior' engineer back when I was 25 (though I probably was).

Hell, I neither know nor care what my current title is!

(though I'm pretty sure it's director of something)

Tom
My work title changed three times in four years for the exact same job. I still use my first title as it sounds much more impressive than the last one
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Old 30.07.2012, 00:34
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

Jesus, this is just making me more and more confused
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Old 30.07.2012, 08:54
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

Then break it down into what is important:

1) are you happy to come and work in Switzerland?

2) regardless of job title, is it a job you would enjoy doing?

3) again regardless of job title, are you going to be paid a salary in line with your experience?

break ti down facts rather than emotions
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Old 30.07.2012, 09:04
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

How much would senior earn more then a junior developer? Is that the 100k (junior) and the 130k+ for senior?
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Old 30.07.2012, 09:18
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

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Then break it down into what is important:

1) are you happy to come and work in Switzerland?

2) regardless of job title, is it a job you would enjoy doing?

3) again regardless of job title, are you going to be paid a salary in line with your experience?

break ti down facts rather than emotions
1. Yes
2. Probably
3) Doesn't look like it from reading this: http://www.fragomen.com/newsresource...lerts&news=436
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Old 30.07.2012, 09:24
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Re: Junior vs Senior Developer

I guess you would need more information from your future employer... Exactly how big is the team? what does the job entail? Try and get as many facts and information as possible to decide if it really is the right position for you. As the others have also asked: How do you feel about moving to Switzerland? Have you ever been here before to know what it's like living here?
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