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  #21  
Old 10.09.2012, 14:22
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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Why on earth is that unfair?? There is no absolute right for the employee to take holidays whenever he or she wants. You have a right to holidays but it is up to the employer to decide when you can take it. This is the case for any employee in Switzerland, not just nannies.

Many companies close for Christmas e.g. and can then demand the employees to take holidays for these days. Or teachers that has holidays when the schools are closed. Or hospitals demanding you to work Christmas, New Years and 1. August...
There's a difference between "we have to approve when you take your holidays" and "we only want you to take all of your holidays when we're also on holiday so we don't have to pay you". Doesn't leave much room for spontaneous getaways, destination weddings, etc. At my job I can take a holiday whenever I want provided I give enough notice. I really wouldn't accept anything less, but to each his own.

But, in the end, if that's what she agreed to, that's what she agreed to and that's what she should stick to.
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  #22  
Old 10.09.2012, 14:33
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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I read the post differently, that he didn't want her to take vacation during the school holidays - but now I am not so sure what is meant...
I meant that I am constrained to take family vacations during school holidays.
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  #23  
Old 10.09.2012, 14:38
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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There's a difference between "we have to approve when you take your holidays" and "we only want you to take all of your holidays when we're also on holiday so we don't have to pay you". Doesn't leave much room for spontaneous getaways, destination weddings, etc. .
She is a nanny for goodness sake, in other words she is looking after children hence she is being totally unrealistic if she expects to insist on holidays at a time different to the family. A nanny should be compelled to have the holidays linked to the family's choice of holidays.

Last edited by Wallabies; 10.09.2012 at 15:37.
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Old 10.09.2012, 14:42
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Re: Sacking a nanny

Is she actually a qualified trained nanny? or an au-pair? has she much experience in looking after kids?
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Old 10.09.2012, 15:17
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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She is a nanny for goodness sake, in other words she is looking after children hence she is being totally unrealistic if she expects to get paid while the family go on holidays. A nanny should be compelled to have the holidays linked to the family's choice of holidays.
So a nanny, presumably full time considering the vacation is even an issue, should be forced to take unpaid vacation whenever her employers decide to take vacation? What if the family decides to go somewhere for the entirety of the school vacation, some 50 or 60 days, the nanny is expected to forgo 2 months of salary? I'm asking sincerely here, I have no idea.
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  #26  
Old 10.09.2012, 15:21
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Re: Sacking a nanny

It would all depend on the contract agreed between the nanny and the family. My nanny is salaried so she gets paid the same every month regardless of hours worked due to holidays. Other nannies I know of are paid an hourly rate so only get paid when they work.

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So a nanny, presumably full time considering the vacation is even an issue, should be forced to take unpaid vacation whenever her employers decide to take vacation? What if the family decides to go somewhere for the entirety of the school vacation, some 50 or 60 days, the nanny is expected to forgo 2 months of salary? I'm asking sincerely here, I have no idea.
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Old 10.09.2012, 15:24
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Re: Sacking a nanny

Really? You expect a person with a job & a legal contract not to be paid their salary just because they or their employer goes on holiday? A nanny is an employee just like any other and is subject to exactly the same employment rights as an employee in any other industry. It really pisses me off when people expect child care workers to take crap treatment just because they look after kids for a living .

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She is a nanny for goodness sake, in other words she is looking after children hence she is being totally unrealistic if she expects to get paid while the family go on holidays. A nanny should be compelled to have the holidays linked to the family's choice of holidays.
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  #28  
Old 10.09.2012, 15:40
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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Really? You expect a person with a job & a legal contract not to be paid their salary just because they or their employer goes on holiday? A nanny is an employee just like any other and is subject to exactly the same employment rights as an employee in any other industry. It really pisses me off when people expect child care workers to take crap treatment just because they look after kids for a living .
Actually, I don't expect her not to be paid, rather to be more realistic abut her vacation demands especially when still on probation. Computer locked up and you and one other posted before I could edit.

Have now edited the post to reflect what I really was looking to saw
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  #29  
Old 10.09.2012, 15:44
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Re: Sacking a nanny

I really don't see anyone suggesting such a thing...

A nanny, like any other employee, can have a monthly salary in which case one gets minimum 3 weeks of holiday paid or one works on an hourly basis in which case the holiday pay is included in the hourly salary.

If the employee is on a monthly salary, the employer has to grant minimum two weeks holiday in a row and employers wishes should be considered if possible. This is the law, regardless of if you work as a nanny or in a hospital or in Migros. I can assure you that there are many jobs where the employee cannot freely choose when to take holiday and this is definitelly not a legal or given right in Switzerland.

It is also very common to work on an hourly contract; not just nannies but many, many other people work with such contracts. In these cases you agree with the employer beforehand when you should work and you get paid for the hours you work.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that the nanny in question should be on a monthly salary but only get paid when the family needs her. The issue here is whether she can demand to take her contractual holiday whenever she want and to this the answer is, no she can't.

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Really? You expect a person with a job & a legal contract not to be paid their salary just because they or their employer goes on holiday? A nanny is an employee just like any other and is subject to exactly the same employment rights as an employee in any other industry. It really pisses me off when people expect child care workers to take crap treatment just because they look after kids for a living .
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  #30  
Old 10.09.2012, 15:52
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Re: Sacking a nanny

Wallabies was suggesting such a thing in their original post which has now been edited. I know the law, I have employed nannies for years. It was not just the post that pissed me off it is the general attitude towards child care workers that annoys me. I have heard so many horror stories about families expecting their nanny to work many hours of unpaid overtime on a ridiculously low wage to begin with. Too many employers think of a nanny as little more than a slave. These are the people we entrust with our children so we should treat them with the respect they deserve. I shall now get off my high horse.

p.s. none of this is directed at the OP as the terms of the contract is not known.

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I really don't see anyone suggesting such a thing...

A nanny, like any other employee, can have a monthly salary in which case one gets minimum 3 weeks of holiday paid or one works on an hourly basis in which case the holiday pay is included in the hourly salary.

If the employee is on a monthly salary, the employer has to grant minimum two weeks holiday in a row and employers wishes should be considered if possible. This is the law, regardless of if you work as a nanny or in a hospital or in Migros. I can assure you that there are many jobs where the employee cannot freely choose when to take holiday and this is definitelly not a legal or given right in Switzerland.

It is also very common to work on an hourly contract; not just nannies but many, many other people work with such contracts. In these cases you agree with the employer beforehand when you should work and you get paid for the hours you work.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that the nanny in question should be on a monthly salary but only get paid when the family needs her. The issue here is whether she can demand to take her contractual holiday whenever she want and to this the answer is, no she can't.
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  #31  
Old 10.09.2012, 15:54
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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I don't think anyone here is suggesting that the nanny in question should be on a monthly salary but only get paid when the family needs her. The issue here is whether she can demand to take her contractual holiday whenever she want and to this the answer is, no she can't.
This is what the OP wrote, it's admittedly a bit confusing:

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She doesn't want to agree to any of the vacation dates we have proposed and doesn't have any alternative proposals thus forcing us to pay her for the days when we will be away and then also for the dates which she will one day decide to inform us about.
My reasoning is thus: if you're dealing with paid vacation, you've got a salaried nanny. If you've got a salaried nanny, it's legally and morally wrong to say "Welp, we're off to the UK for three weeks, sorry but you're not getting paid."
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  #32  
Old 10.09.2012, 16:01
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Re: Sacking a nanny

However, I don't find it morally wrong in any way to say to an employed nanny:

"We will be on holiday in the UK for three weeks in July 2013 and we want to you take three of your four weeks holiday during these three weeks."

I do find it moraly wrong of nanny to say:

"I know that you will be gone three weeks in July 2013 but this doesn't suit my plans. I want to take 4 weeks holidays in September 2013."

It was my understanding from the OP that he is dealing with the second example in which case I would also let the person go during the trial employment period.


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My reasoning is thus: if you're dealing with paid vacation, you've got a salaried nanny. If you've got a salaried nanny, it's legally and morally wrong to say "Welp, we're off to the UK for three weeks, sorry but you're not getting paid."
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  #33  
Old 10.09.2012, 16:02
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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This is what the OP wrote, it's admittedly a bit confusing:


My reasoning is thus: if you're dealing with paid vacation, you've got a salaried nanny. If you've got a salaried nanny, it's legally and morally wrong to say "Welp, we're off to the UK for three weeks, sorry but you're not getting paid."
I think she means that if the nanny isn't going on holiday with them, she'll be home doing nothing and not using vacation days.

So, really, the nanny doesn't have much choice but to take her holidays the same time the family does. Otherwise she will not have any nannying to do because the children won't be there.

Then the other two weeks were the kids are home and the nanny decides to take her holiday the family will have the kids at home but no nanny to take care of them.

ETA: Tilia, said it MUCH better!
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  #34  
Old 10.09.2012, 16:10
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Re: Sacking a nanny

I think what the OP was trying to get their vacations in the same time with the nanny so he could pay her vacations time while they are themselves on vacations and not having his vacations with having to pay her and her having vacations when they need her and still have to pay.

ETA: both Tilia and minimIa said it better.
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Old 10.09.2012, 16:29
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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This is what the OP wrote, it's admittedly a bit confusing:



My reasoning is thus: if you're dealing with paid vacation, you've got a salaried nanny. If you've got a salaried nanny, it's legally and morally wrong to say "Welp, we're off to the UK for three weeks, sorry but you're not getting paid."
Of course I would pay her for her contractual vacation. The point is that by not agreeing to any vacation dates with us she effectively doubles her paid vacation. 4 weeks when we are away, and there is nothing for her to do, and 4 weeks when she has chosen.

She was being paid almost 30CHF an hour so is not some mistreated slave. Anyway, notice has now been given and I'm waiting to see if she comes back with a Dr's note.
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  #36  
Old 10.09.2012, 16:35
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Re: Sacking a nanny

OP, can you confirm that she really is a nanny and not an au-pair?
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  #37  
Old 10.09.2012, 16:42
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Re: Sacking a nanny

As others have said in this situation you can tell your nanny to take 2 weeks off when you go on holiday. To be honest though with her being so inflexible in the probation period does not inspire confidence at all, without confidence there is no point so you have most likely made the right decision to find a new nanny.

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Of course I would pay her for her contractual vacation. The point is that by not agreeing to any vacation dates with us she effectively doubles her paid vacation. 4 weeks when we are away, and there is nothing for her to do, and 4 weeks when she has chosen.

She was being paid almost 30CHF an hour so is not some mistreated slave. Anyway, notice has now been given and I'm waiting to see if she comes back with a Dr's note.
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  #38  
Old 10.09.2012, 16:43
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Re: Sacking a nanny

At CHF30 an hour she will be a nanny or the best paid Au Pair in the world

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OP, can you confirm that she really is a nanny and not an au-pair?
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Old 10.09.2012, 16:44
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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She has notified us this evening that she will be off sick tomorrow...
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Anyway, notice has now been given and I'm waiting to see if she comes back with a Dr's note.
So she gave you notice that she's going to be off sick even though she's not actually sick? If that is the case I would almost expect her to come back with a doctor's note saying she needs time off for stress or whatever.
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Old 10.09.2012, 16:52
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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Of course I would pay her for her contractual vacation. The point is that by not agreeing to any vacation dates with us she effectively doubles her paid vacation. 4 weeks when we are away, and there is nothing for her to do, and 4 weeks when she has chosen.

She was being paid almost 30CHF an hour so is not some mistreated slave. Anyway, notice has now been given and I'm waiting to see if she comes back with a Dr's note.
This makes it much clearer, thanks.
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