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Old 10.09.2012, 02:19
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Sacking a nanny

Hi,

We would like to sack our nanny during her probation period but I wanted to check if there is anything I have to be careful of.

The two reasons I have for wanting to let her go are:
She doesn't want to agree to any of the vacation dates we have proposed and doesn't have any alternative proposals thus forcing us to pay her for the days when we will be away and then also for the dates which she will one day decide to inform us about.
She is german and was asked to bring on the kids' german skills but she just wants to use our kids for english practice. She admitted this and said it is to improve her chances of getting employment with english speaking families in future.

The questions I have are:

She has notified us this evening that she will be off sick tomorrow so does this extend her notice period (3 days in the probation period)?

Does a Dr's note, if she gets one after I have given her her notice, have any bearing on this?

Can she use sickness to take her time of employment beyond the probation period and thus qualify for a longer notice period?

Am I legally bound to pay sick pay in the probation/notice period? I stupidly didn't put anything in the contract about this so feel that I may have left myself a bit open here..

Many thanks
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Old 10.09.2012, 09:11
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Re: Sacking a nanny

You need to pay her in full for the time she is employed by you. You should respect the Swiss laws on giving notice to employees.

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home/.../faq.0020.html

If she is ill and cannot work she needs to be paid and allowed to recover, this time is NOT to be part of her notice period.

There is plenty of information on the Forum, you need to search.

I think you should put your questions to your lawyer

Last edited by Sbrinz; 10.09.2012 at 12:27.
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Old 10.09.2012, 09:28
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Re: Sacking a nanny

I dont think the employee has the same protection during probezeit as afterwards. I did a quick googling on the issue and it seems you are not obliged to pay sick-leave nor should there be any problems to let her go even if she is sick. But to be sure I would recommend you to talk to a lawyer.

Also, regarding the holidays, the employer may decide when the employee should take holiday. The employer needs to grant minimum two weeks in a row and as much consideration as possible should be taken to the employees wishes.

Last edited by Tilia; 10.09.2012 at 09:50.
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Old 10.09.2012, 10:18
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Re: Sacking a nanny

Thanks for the links. I couldn't find anything there which described what the law says for the probation period though. I fully intend complying with the law but was hoping to find out what it is without paying for a lawyer.
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Old 10.09.2012, 10:24
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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I dont think the employee has the same protection during probezeit as afterwards. I did a quick googling on the issue and it seems you are not obliged to pay sick-leave nor should there be any problems to let her go even if she is sick. But to be sure I would recommend you to talk to a lawyer.

Also, regarding the holidays, the employer may decide when the employee should take holiday. The employer needs to grant minimum two weeks in a row and as much consideration as possible should be taken to the employees wishes.
Yes, I found the same but nothing really concrete.
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Old 10.09.2012, 10:26
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Re: Sacking a nanny

did you not discuss points such as vacations and language to be spoken with the kids before hiring her? have you told her that you will fire her unless she changes her attitude?
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Old 10.09.2012, 10:55
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Re: Sacking a nanny

The thing with the Swiss system is that you won't really find any thing more concrete that this. The labour and contractual laws are often very generic and simple and thus, open for interpretation. However, there is a kind of case law built up around this which gives guidelines as to how the law is to be interpreted.

Usually, sources like Beobachter.ch, Tagesanzeriger.ch etc are pretty reliable on issues like this but to be absolutely sure, you need to talk to a lawyer.

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Yes, I found the same but nothing really concrete.
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Old 10.09.2012, 11:17
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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Thanks for the links. I couldn't find anything there which described what the law says for the probation period though. I fully intend complying with the law but was hoping to find out what it is without paying for a lawyer.
The lawyer will cost about Chf 250.-- for a consultation, what is the salary exposure, maybe money well spent if you wish to be 100% sure of your ground.

I can't quite see this taking longer than 5 or 10 minutes of a lawyers' time so should be far less than Chf 250.-- i would think.
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Old 10.09.2012, 12:09
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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did you not discuss points such as vacations and language to be spoken with the kids before hiring her? have you told her that you will fire her unless she changes her attitude?
Yes, we discussed both points in the interview and all seemed well then. We didn't give precise vacation dates but it is quite obvious that both parties need to come to an agreement. We are fixed to the school holidays but apart from that we were willing to be flexible. She doesn't want to commit to even the school holidays.
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Old 10.09.2012, 12:21
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Re: Sacking a nanny

That seems sort of unfair no? If I understand correctly, not only do you want her to take her vacation when you want her to, but you also want her to take her vacation when everything is at it's most expensive and crowded. I'd never, ever take vacation during school holidays if I didn't have school age children.
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Old 10.09.2012, 12:25
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Re: Sacking a nanny

I recommend using a decent employment agency next time.
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Old 10.09.2012, 13:00
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Re: Sacking a nanny

Just sack her. Worst that can happen is she comes back with a doctors note, at which point you consult the lawyer. If she doesn't play that game, you've saved the lawyer fees.

Nothing immoral about it, that's the whole point of Probezeit.
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Old 10.09.2012, 13:01
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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That seems sort of unfair no? If I understand correctly, not only do you want her to take her vacation when you want her to, but you also want her to take her vacation when everything is at it's most expensive and crowded. I'd never, ever take vacation during school holidays if I didn't have school age children.
Why is that unfair? It's the same deal teachers get...
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Old 10.09.2012, 13:13
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Re: Sacking a nanny

The nanny knew the rules of the game. Now that she thinks she's got the job, she's changing the rules.

Hope you find a new nanny soon. This one spells trouble.
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Old 10.09.2012, 13:15
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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That seems sort of unfair no? If I understand correctly, not only do you want her to take her vacation when you want her to, but you also want her to take her vacation when everything is at it's most expensive and crowded. I'd never, ever take vacation during school holidays if I didn't have school age children.
I read the post differently, that he didn't want her to take vacation during the school holidays - but now I am not so sure what is meant...
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Old 10.09.2012, 13:22
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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That seems sort of unfair no? If I understand correctly, not only do you want her to take her vacation when you want her to, but you also want her to take her vacation when everything is at it's most expensive and crowded. I'd never, ever take vacation during school holidays if I didn't have school age children.
Me neither, but I don't have kids, and I don't work as a nanny with kids who are in school and most predictably have to be off on fixed school holidays.

These things need to be agreed upon before the job starts though, not after! Then the person can take the job, or walk away.
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Old 10.09.2012, 13:33
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Re: Sacking a nanny

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Why is that unfair? It's the same deal teachers get...
I agree. She is working with children it's quite clear that she needs to take her holidays when the kids do, especially as that's when the parents are going to take their holidays. Strange behavior by a nanny.




Anyway, to the OP: is she just planning this one day off or do you think she's got a doctors note for a week or so? When is her probation over?
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Old 10.09.2012, 13:39
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Re: Sacking a nanny

If you attempt to run out the clock on the probationary period by being "ill", have another look at Art. 335b para. 3 CO. The probationary period gets extended, so the notice period remains 7 days. Also, during the probationary period your employer can terminate your employment even if you are ill, pregnant, in the military, etc. (check Art. 336c which says that these safeguards apply only after ther probationary period has run out).

Fired while on probationary period
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Old 10.09.2012, 14:16
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Re: Sacking a nanny

Why on earth is that unfair?? There is no absolute right for the employee to take holidays whenever he or she wants. You have a right to holidays but it is up to the employer to decide when you can take it. This is the case for any employee in Switzerland, not just nannies.

Many companies close for Christmas e.g. and can then demand the employees to take holidays for these days. Or teachers that has holidays when the schools are closed. Or hospitals demanding you to work Christmas, New Years and 1. August...


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That seems sort of unfair no? If I understand correctly, not only do you want her to take her vacation when you want her to, but you also want her to take her vacation when everything is at it's most expensive and crowded. I'd never, ever take vacation during school holidays if I didn't have school age children.
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Old 10.09.2012, 14:18
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Re: Sacking a nanny

What did you agree with the nanny on holidays? The standard is 2 weeks your choice & 2 weeks the nanny's choice when there is 4 weeks annual leave in the contract. So you can tell her she is taking 2 weeks off when you go on holiday.
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