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Old 16.10.2012, 10:20
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UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

This (from Finextra) was in my inobx thsi morning

UBS PLANS TO CUT 2000 IT JOBS - REPORT
Swiss bank UBS is planning to axe around 2000 information technology jobs as part of a massive cost-cutting programme, according to local paper TagesAnzeiger.
Full story: http://www.finextra.com/News/Fullsto...wsitemid=24168

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15 October, 2012 - 10:38
UBS plans to cut 2000 IT jobs - report
Swiss bank UBS is planning to axe around 2000 information technology jobs as part of a massive cost-cutting programme, according to local paper TagesAnzeiger.
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Around half of the cuts in the bank's 8200-strong global IT workforce could come from the 3200 working in Switzerland, says the paper, citing sources.

The plan is designed to reduce UBS's technology costs from around CHF3.6 billion to CHF2.4 billion a year by 2015.

With cuts at other, unnamed divisions, also on the cards, as many as 12,700 positions across the business could go, around 20% of the entire workforce.

The IT cuts will be pushed through by CIO Michele Trogni, described to TagesAnzeiger by one insider as "a crazy woman" and by another as "an impossible woman".

The bank - which had already outlined plans for 3500 jobs losses last year - has refused to comment on the story.
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Old 16.10.2012, 10:32
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

if the published figures are correct, UBS has about 64,000 employees globally. that would mean that 1 out of every 8 employees works in IT?
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Old 16.10.2012, 15:07
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

I guess we will get plenty of car for sale ads shortly & the Zurich / Geneva house price bubble will come to an end.
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Old 16.10.2012, 15:18
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

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if the published figures are correct, UBS has about 64,000 employees globally. that would mean that 1 out of every 8 employees works in IT?
That is nothing unusual in a bank where it is heavily dependant on its IT systems, CS are about the same too
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Old 16.10.2012, 15:30
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

Quite a lot of UBS's IT is already based in India. In fact only about half of the announced cuts will be to jobs based in Switzerland.

What surprises me more is that so many jobs can be cut so suddenly. This would imply that the work they are doing is either expendable, or that unto now there have been vast systemic inefficiencies, or that functions and services are being reduced, or that they are being transferred to outsourcing companies.
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Old 16.10.2012, 15:44
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

Actually those who survive the "guillotine" are going to work under water hence delivering poor quality.
They will suffer extreme pressure to deliver good results and eventually will ask to leave.
UBS will then outsource everything to either India or China.
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Old 16.10.2012, 15:55
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

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This (from Finextra) was in my inobx thsi morning

UBS PLANS TO CUT 2000 IT JOBS - REPORT
Swiss bank UBS is planning to axe around 2000 information technology jobs as part of a massive cost-cutting programme, according to local paper TagesAnzeiger.
Full story: http://www.finextra.com/News/Fullsto...wsitemid=24168
not a good time to look for a job in IT at the moment.
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Old 16.10.2012, 16:33
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

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Actually those who survive the "guillotine" are going to work under water hence delivering poor quality.
They will suffer extreme pressure to deliver good results and eventually will ask to leave.
UBS will then outsource everything to either India or China.
Most UK banks have already gone down this road years ago.
And I suppose with banking secrecy laws being scuppered the way they are, it's more and more difficult to argue keeping these jobs here for confidentiality reasons.
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Old 16.10.2012, 16:35
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

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Quite a lot of UBS's IT is already based in India. In fact only about half of the announced cuts will be to jobs based in Switzerland.

What surprises me more is that so many jobs can be cut so suddenly. This would imply that the work they are doing is either expendable, or that unto now there have been vast systemic inefficiencies, or that functions and services are being reduced, or that they are being transferred to outsourcing companies.
New projects with contractors can get canned easily and quickly. As Banks have a huge pool of contractors, the hire and fire quickly method works well for the books.

Tough for contractors, but hey, they should have made hay when the sun shone.
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Old 16.10.2012, 17:55
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

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They will suffer extreme pressure to deliver good results and eventually will ask to leave.
I am in tears. Banks pay some 50% more than the rest of the world. Few will ask to leave.

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UBS will then outsource everything to either India or China.
Now that's a completely new idea, isn't it? I wonder why they never tried that before...oh, they have? seriously: never worked, never will work.

I guess I am simply getting older as I can only say "we have seen it all before" = the bank will cut some thousand jobs, the balance sheet will look better, a lot of the cut jobs will be replaced with temp contractors who in practice might very well be the same people... and over the next three years do the jobs somehow get insourced step by step again as contractors are more expensive...
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Old 16.10.2012, 17:57
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

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I guess I am simply getting older as I can only say "we have seen it all before" = the bank will cut some thousand jobs, the balance sheet will look better, a lot of the cut jobs will be replaced with temp contractors who in practice might very well be the same people... and over the next three years do the jobs somehow get insourced step by step again as contractors are more expensive...
But change is always good? Right?
So let's make some changes.
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Old 17.10.2012, 09:22
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

http://www.nzz.ch/aktuell/wirtschaft...gen-1.17559476

In the last decade the banking sector share in Swiss GDP decreased by half, but not the employment. So, this kind of changes might be actually overdue.
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Old 17.10.2012, 11:09
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

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I am in tears. Banks pay some 50% more than the rest of the world. Few will ask to leave.
...
I agree with everything but this - I haven't worked for that many banks (and neither UBS), but 50% is simply not true. Compared to what? Cleaning streets? Compared to pharma? Nope. Goverment jobs? They are lower, but few friends working for company delivering exclusively to cantonal governments are paid +- same as regular bank staff.
Contractors are paid more, but they are paid more in every industry, just that banking needs them more than government projects, for example. I've done contracting for a year and I wouldn't go that road soon - constant L permit renewals (every 1-3 months) and all cr*p related to those bloody Ls, not knowing when contract will end, envy from some perm guys etc. It motivates you to work on yourself and not coming even close to "comfort zone" in life, but I've got enough kick form that year for many years to come.
And if you put paid vacations, sick leaves, bank holidays, pauses between jobs, 3 months notice period etc... conditions that I have now as a permie for +- same salary seems like a paradise now
The only benefit of contracting I see is more time for traveling between jobs - in theory. Reality is that guys work like hell during contract and then usually try to get another one ASAP. No, thanx
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Old 17.10.2012, 12:29
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

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I agree with everything but this - I haven't worked for that many banks (and neither UBS), but 50% is simply not true. Compared to what? Cleaning streets?
No. Comparing apples to apples: I am managing an IT consultancy with a team of 8 pretty experienced guys and gals at the moment. I know somebody who runs a team of ten IT business analysts in one of the two large banks well enough to know their salaries. I can tell you: The banking guys made some 50% more than my consultants (with very similar backgrounds). It is the exact same in Zurich all the way to Asia. Granted, some other niche industries pay very well. From my experience would that be oil/ gas or pharma. But the majority of IT people outside of banks make way less - but the banking IT guys seem to slowly forget that and start to compare themselves to the so much better salaries on the business side...

Or let me put this in real life numbers: When I started working in telecoms was the graduate salaries in Zurich some 55-65k CHF a year. Within three or four years can you get up to 100k another 2 years and you end up around 120... I know graduates who started at Swiss banks in Zurich for just under 100k with literally no experience aside from ETH and some internship. Within two years were they at 120k. That's pretty much impossible outside of banking and translates to some 50% more at any given time. From there on does it depend how fast they climb the ladder or if they start contracting instead.
And a senior and qualified contractor (say over five years experience in a specific field) in a Zurich bank makes some 100-125 CHF an hour, no? That's 16-20k a month and more than a bit over average... the reason they do not follow the travelling plans but jump at the next contract is that everyone in his right mind knows that this is an excellent pay and might not always be available...
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Old 17.10.2012, 13:34
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

I don't know whether these job cuts make sense from an operational POV or if it's simply another high-performer who wants to see "results". What I do know however is that banks still pay considerably more than other jobs, and that most Swiss are actually not unhappy for the banking sector to a) lose its dominant position in the Swiss economy and b) start paying taxes again, which in the current situation is only possible by cutting costs.

In a broader perspective I think it only accelerates the inevitable: Switzerland's finance sector will abandon its current business model and position itself as a progressive, safe banking place with excellence in tradition, stability and customer service, not banking secrecy. This should have the nice side-effect that even the least informed yank (and occasional expat) will realize that Switzerland is not (and has never been) dependent on money laundering and tax evasion to become rich.

And before the usual suspects reply by simply repeating some of the commonly heard clichés about the topic: please do try to inform yourself a wee bit before posting.
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Old 17.10.2012, 14:18
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

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In a broader perspective I think it only accelerates the inevitable: Switzerland's finance sector will abandon its current business model and position itself as a progressive, safe banking place with excellence in tradition, stability and customer service
True. But isn't the latter actually a point where Swiss banks are really behind. The way banks here intearct with their clients is still a bit antiquated and you end up paying for things that would be free in other countries. Foreign investors put up with it because CH was very much a safe haven for their money. If that safety is no longer there, the banks are going to have to work hard on the other points to catch up.
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Old 17.10.2012, 15:06
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

No IT division in a bank or otherwise can lose that many people so quickly without a serious impact on quality.
This is a typical headcount manouver, lose permies, bring in contractors, headcount and HR costs go down, purchase ledger for contractors goes up but appears somewhere else on the balance sheet as a tax write-off
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Old 17.10.2012, 15:29
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

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In a broader perspective I think it only accelerates the inevitable: Switzerland's finance sector will abandon its current business model and position itself as a progressive, safe banking place with excellence in tradition, stability and customer service, not banking secrecy. This should have the nice side-effect that even the least informed yank (and occasional expat) will realize that Switzerland is not (and has never been) dependent on money laundering and tax evasion to become rich.
banks (like all business enterprises) don't make countries rich, they make individuals rich - UBS and CS will be more than fine, it has never been an issue of money laundering (the UK banks are actually the most active in that arena) or tax evasion, but rather a simple matter of tax optimization (and there has never been anything wrong with that, at least from where I sit). and I don't think personal banking or "secrecy" has been what made UBS or CS so strong, anyway, they both profit tremendously from the self-subsidized finance market in Switzerland, the business-friendly tax environment as well as their relative strength in the global derivatives markets.

as for the IT question - IT has been a black box for the past 20 years or so, and entire empires have been built within most companies. IT departments design their staffing the same way they design their systems - with plenty of built-in redundancy. as IT becomes less of a black box and firms face increasing pressure on earnings, the IT segment is going to get hit extremely hard. the fact that there are plenty of available outsourcing options only means that internal IT will be hit even harder.
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Old 17.10.2012, 15:38
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

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No IT division in a bank or otherwise can lose that many people so quickly without a serious impact on quality.
This is a typical headcount manouver, lose permies, bring in contractors, headcount and HR costs go down, purchase ledger for contractors goes up but appears somewhere else on the balance sheet as a tax write-off
I don't know about that as I've seen so many companies filled with Wallys and PHBs in the IT departments that it's possible that outsourcing to Bangalore will be a real improvement. There's a lot of dead wood out there in IT. Lots.

Or maybe they'll just move all the data 'into the cloud' and go to Disneyland instead.
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Old 17.10.2012, 15:53
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Re: UBS said to be planning 2000 IT job cuts

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I don't know about that as I've seen so many companies filled with Wallys and PHBs in the IT departments that it's possible that outsourcing to Bangalore will be a real improvement. There's a lot of dead wood out there in IT. Lots.

Or maybe they'll just move all the data 'into the cloud' and go to Disneyland instead.
I agree but unfortunately it is often the case that the idiots stay and the good go, as idiots tend to form a self protection society whilst complaining loudly about how overworked they are.
The good ones are far to busy working to do this
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