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Old 25.10.2012, 11:00
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RAV forcing you to take a job

Hi,

I recently became unemployed. Since then I've been searching madly for a job, organizing my CV and meeting with placement agents. I've applied to some 20 jobs each month but the market is tough and I need to get some better German, and just keep looking.

None of this really alarmed or surprised me. My skills, background and experience are more of international nature so the jobs that I'm suited for are in high demand. Fine, really I'm working about 30 hours a week on this and going to a lot of meetings, basically following every lead I can. I'm honestly trying really hard and applying to every job I think might hire me.

So, even though my current employment lasts until end of November I have already organized, gone to the RAV and met my "counselor". She is nice, English speaker and was helpful even in advice on how to sort out some dispute I have with my last employer. All looking good.

But, then she said some strange things. She did not outright say she would force me to take "any" job but she did sing praise to past people she worked with who had gone to work at Starbucks for a month or two, or who did grocery work or what not. I'm 36, have an MBA and have worked all over the world.

I don't feel I'm above more hourly work (I actually think its a chance to try some things you might not do otherwise in life, I've never waited tables, maybe its fun) just to fill my time. But I also think that doing some sort of job like construction or waiting tables will severely detract from my time and energy to search for a real job. Not to mention I do not know anything about these jobs, the employer would have to train me. And I don't speak German well enough.

So, the question is, can they really make you take on such a role? Can they force the employer to hire me? Frankly I would be surprised given my CV and lack of German fluency that I would be able to get a job in the services field. Also employers are smart and realize you will just move on as soon as you can or that you will constantly be missing work for interviews etc. (which they cannot prevent you from doing). And there are a lot of others looking for these jobs too.

Should I be worried about this? The counselor really seemed reasonable but these comments were either meant to scare me or just show her lack of understanding of the job market, the search process and my qualifications. It really seems a bit "obtuse". After all, as I mentioned, if I apply for such jobs after 3-4 months as she said I will just be wasting time sending CVs to employers who (if they know what is good for them) should hire somebody more suited for those roles. I would be better of learning German or just going back to get other certificates to increase my chances. Wasting hours sending CVs of the internet for a bartending job really doesnt seem productive. And, until now, I had a lot of respect for the RAV and the system in keeping the workforce here employed and competitive.

Thanks
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Old 25.10.2012, 11:04
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Re: RAV forcing you to take a job

Opps. One more thing. And that is. Can you search for jobs in other countries. I am applying all over. Zurich, Geneva, London, Singapore, Dubai. I really want a job. I also had the idea to go to the US for a month and search there, but if I do this, can I still the benefits?

Also, I didnt mean to imply in any way that service work is not real work. Its just not work I know. And if I were the hiring manager I wouldnt choose me for this.

Thanks
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  #3  
Old 25.10.2012, 11:14
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Re: RAV forcing you to take a job

There will be an Info Tag where you have to go. Just make sure you ask for an English version. Check with your RAV counsellor. If you search the forum there will be plenty of answers but you will get answers also from the Info Tag.
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Old 25.10.2012, 11:51
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Re: RAV forcing you to take a job

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Opps. One more thing. And that is. Can you search for jobs in other countries.
Yes, my daughter is currently doing that, and sending her CV via email to companies in foreign countries counts towards her quota.

Tom
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Old 25.10.2012, 12:03
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Re: RAV forcing you to take a job

They can't force you to take any jobs, and even if they did, can you imagine going to an interview at Starbucks and telling them your salary expectations and that you don't speak German very well?
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Old 25.10.2012, 12:16
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Re: RAV forcing you to take a job

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Yes, my daughter is currently doing that, and sending her CV via email to companies in foreign countries counts towards her quota.

Tom
I was under the impression the OP wanted to go to the US for a month or so and look for a job and still get benefits, will they allow this as well?
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Old 25.10.2012, 12:42
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Re: RAV forcing you to take a job

I read once that you can go to some other European countries and if you show you looked for work there its ok for some period. But not sure if this works for US, UK, etc.
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Old 25.10.2012, 12:51
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Re: RAV forcing you to take a job

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I read once that you can go to some other European countries and if you show you looked for work there its ok for some period. But not sure if this works for US, UK, etc.
for EU, you are allowed to but as far as I understand, it is to be seen as relocated back, so you still get your RAV full amount but only limited to 3 months in that country. UK is in EU! just about
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Old 25.10.2012, 13:53
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Re: RAV forcing you to take a job

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for EU, you are allowed to but as far as I understand, it is to be seen as relocated back, so you still get your RAV full amount but only limited to 3 months in that country. UK is in EU! just about
My daughter is Swiss and Canadian and US (for the moment), and she is allowed to search for jobs throughout Switzerland and the EU, don't know about the US.

Tom
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Old 25.10.2012, 14:05
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They can't force you to take any jobs, and even if they did, can you imagine going to an interview at Starbucks and telling them your salary expectations and that you don't speak German very well?
Not true, you are required to do any work offered to save the insurance money.

You must also apply for other work if there are not jobs n your field. You can apply in any country for any job brain surgeon if you like!
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Old 25.10.2012, 14:11
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Re: RAV forcing you to take a job

The watch making firm my dad was working for in the early 70s went bust- dad was just a few months from retirement. He was requested to work on the railway line, breaking up stones, etc, for a fraction of his wage, until his official retirement date. Your wage is never protected as such - if you can't find a similar job, at a similar wage level - tough. I found the wage slips for that period recently, going through his paperwork (he passed away a couple of years ago- with his sarcastic comments on the matter). Say NO and they can cut your benefits. Although as it was in the 70s, this may be obsolete to some extent nowadays.

Last edited by Odile; 25.10.2012 at 16:29.
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Old 25.10.2012, 14:55
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Re: RAV forcing you to take a job

The RAV can't force you to take a job, and they can not force an employer to hire you. How it works, is that the RAV has their own database of vacant jobs, they could eventually "offer" you a position, which might not suit either your taste or qualifications, but from their perspective they want you to re-join the working force asap (hence less unemployment money paid to you), and for them.

Of course you can refuse to take the job, but then they will probably stop paying you or at least penalize you. Usually on the RAV information day they inform you of all types of penalties (missing an meeting with your counselor , not looking hard enough...etc), which is in the form of deductions of the money you receive monthly.

For job applications abroad, I think it is case-dependent. Usually the RAV adviser sets the geographical zone at which the person should be applying. Unless your adviser is flexible, better ask him/her

Good luck with the job hunting!
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Old 25.10.2012, 15:05
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Not true, you are required to do any work offered to save the insurance money.

You must also apply for other work if there are not jobs n your field. You can apply in any country for any job brain surgeon if you like!
Wrong yet again. Not sure where you get your info from. Perhaps outdated. Severely.

My RAV adviser told me, within the last 3 months, that I was not obliged to take a job below the insured amount and quoted me the figure as I was offered work on a commission basis. I was hoping that the RAV would make up the remainder and I could build up a client base. The RAV will also not make up the shortfall. But again, you are not obliged to accept anything less than your insured amount. If you are an MBA and have been earning a fair whack, I imagine your starting point for proper consideration is around the CHF 150 mark.

I was also told I could work abroad for a period of 3 months and be paid, as long as it is (as has already been said) with a country that Switzerland has bilateral agreements e.g. the UK, the EU but not the US. You have to register with the local unemployment benefits office and show signs of searching for work in that locale. I was sorely tempted to search in the Canary Isles and to some extent still am. Not sure how much of a finance industry they have there and whether I would get away with it. I'll let you know should I go down that route and if I go back on the RAV...

Quote:
The watch making firm my dad was working for in the early 70s went bust- dad was just a few months from retirement. He was requested to work on the railway line, breaking up stones, etc, for a fraction of his wage, until his official retirement date. Your wage is never protected as such - if you can't find a similar job, at a similar wage level - tough. Say NO and they can cut your benefits.
Your information is similarly incorrect. The RAV use a calculation based on your insured salary and you are not obliged to take anything below that. Your point could be valid if the insured wage was around the same level as the offered position. Otherwise this is out of date.

Last edited by Guest; 26.10.2012 at 16:23. Reason: Merging two successive posts
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Old 25.10.2012, 15:16
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The watch making firm my dad was working for in the early 70s went bust- dad was just a few months from retirement. He was requested to work on the railway line, breaking up stones, etc, for a fraction of his wage, until his official retirement date. Your wage is never protected as such - if you can't find a similar job, at a similar wage level - tough. Say NO and they can cut your benefits.
Not quite , if your salary is 1 chf less than insured you will get 70/80% the difference for your rahemnfrist. Earn 1 chf more than insured you get nothing so a low paid job is tempting!

Fwiw RAV advisors do not understand the calculations, had 7 advisors ......

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Wrong yet again. Not sure where you get your info from. Perhaps outdated. Severely.

My RAV adviser told me, within the last 3 months, that I was not obliged to take a job below the insured amount and quoted me the figure as I was offered work on a commission basis. I was hoping that the RAV would make up the remainder and I could build up a client base. The RAV will also not make up the shortfall. But again, you are not obliged to accept anything less than your insured amount. If you are an MBA and have been earning a fair whack, I imagine your starting point for proper consideration is around the CHF 150 mark.

I was also told I could work abroad for a period of 3 months and be paid, as long as it is (as has already been said) with a country that Switzerland has bilateral agreements e.g. the UK, the EU but not the US. You have to register with the local unemployment benefits office and show signs of searching for work in that locale. I was sorely tempted to search in the Canary Isles and to some extent still am. Not sure how much of a finance industry they have there and whether I would get away with it. I'll let you know should I go down that route and if I go back on the RAV...
I suspect I know how it's calculated better than any RAV advisor, they don't make the calculations.......

My information is from experience over the last 7 years. The rules have changed in the last year, I am up to date.

Been told many times what I can & can't do by RAV advisors, in almost every case they were incorrect , the law is very clear.

Last edited by Guest; 26.10.2012 at 16:24. Reason: Merging two successive posts
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Old 25.10.2012, 15:41
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Re: RAV forcing you to take a job

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I suspect I know how it's calculated better than any RAV advisor, they don't make the calculations.......

My information is from experience over the last 7 years. The rules have changed in the last year, I am up to date.

Been told many times what I can & can't do by RAV advisors, in almost every case they were incorrect , the law is very clear.
Of course you do...

Are you on the RAV now? When did you finish up?

You were quite wrong about redundancy packages being taken away in a previous thread.
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Old 25.10.2012, 16:18
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Re: RAV forcing you to take a job

Rather than everybody saying the other person is wrong, if you are right then support your position by providing evidence rather than just saying I know better than the other person which is of no use to anybody, and just provokes a chain of unhelpful posts
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Old 25.10.2012, 16:26
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Re: RAV forcing you to take a job

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Rather than everybody saying the other person is wrong, if you are right then support your position by providing evidence rather than just saying I know better than the other person which is of no use to anybody, and just provokes a chain of unhelpful posts
Sure. Here. From Kanton Schwyz 16 questions about unemployment (translated)

http://www.sz.ch/xml_1/internet/de/a...316/p27498.cfm

Q.5 When is work considered reasonable.

You must accept basically any work immediately. Unreasonable and therefore
exempted from the obligation to accept is a work that
 the usual working conditions does not conform;
 not appropriate to your skills and your previous activity
Have regard (except for the under 30s);
 not your personal circumstances equivalent (age, health, family);
 a working path of more than 4 hours a day makes it necessary;
 re-entry into your profession more difficult if one out in the foreseeable future
Prospect;
 brings them a wage that is less than 70% of the insured
Earnings, unless you receive compensation payments under
an interim earnings (see Question 9).


Q.16 Can I go abroad for a job?

Check with your RAV and read the info service
15 «services in seeking employment abroad", No. 716204.
For persons who receive benefits from employment abroad relate (export performance)
and the addition of the foreign correspondence address via e-mail
Authorities want to maintain contact, is the recognized delivery platform
PrivaSphere available. The corresponding e-mail address of the RAV
insured person when submitting the form "PD U2" informed.

HTH
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Old 25.10.2012, 16:27
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Re: RAV forcing you to take a job

If you've got a university degree, no they will not force you to work at Starbucks. Nor will they force you to work in pharma if you're an car mechanic or things like that.

Basically, the RAV will not force or even require you to take a job that is not suited to your qualifications. So don't worry. (I know because two years ago I was in a similar position to yours, and no, they didn't force me to work at McDonald's when I couldn't find a job in engineering).

That being said....IFF it were to happen that they required you to take a job that would be a waste of your time.....you can always find ways....to....you know....lose that job. Botch the interview, not make it through the trial period, etc etc etc.

Don't worry, the RAV is not the state police. It is in their (and everyone's as a society) best interests that you find a job that you're suited for and that you will STAY in, so that you don't end up in the RAV office again a few weeks later, at a higher bureaucratic cost than not having left in the first place.

In fact, the RAV will probably help you find german courses and the like to improve your marketability.

The trick with the Swiss is, when they tell you how hard-working other (Swiss) people are, nod and agree, and compliment them. They love that. And they mostly say it because they're worried that "those damn foreigners" are sitting lazily on their couches watching TV while they collect benefits, forgetting that over 25% of their highly skilled workforce is foreign, and the foreigners also pay into the social security/insurance system. It is just a quirk. Ignore it, smile, and nod, and focus on your job search.

Hope you find an awesome job with a cool company soon!

P.S. Only exception are the RAV "internships". Sometimes they'll place you at some institution (i.e. university or research lab) for zero pay and reduced hours so that you can "network". These are pretty much obligatory, but at least they don't eat up all of your time, they only last 3-6 months at most, and heck, universities can be fun, if you choose your internship wisely (and you'll have a choice 6 or 7 pages long of listings!).

Anyway, good luck!
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Old 25.10.2012, 16:38
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Re: RAV forcing you to take a job

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you are not obliged to accept anything less than your insured amount. If you are an MBA and have been earning a fair whack, I imagine your starting point for proper consideration is around the CHF 150 mark
No-one is insured for more that CHF 126k!

Tom
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Old 25.10.2012, 16:46
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Re: RAV forcing you to take a job

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No-one is insured for more that CHF 126k!

Tom
Correct. But you dont have to take jobs that start at the level. On the 126k, I believe it is fairly close to the number quoted give or take 6k...

I should note the calculation takes into account your previous salary. And mine was way above the minimum.

For the sake of this thread, you do not have to take any job below the insured minimum. It is there on the website.

Last edited by Breezy; 25.10.2012 at 17:00. Reason: Clarification
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