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  #41  
Old 29.11.2012, 20:17
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

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agreed. you can get all kinds of places in zone 1. from dirt cheap dive, to billionaire's pad.
Plus, plenty of billionaire's pads in places like Wimbledon or Richmond, which are well outside of zone 1.

Rents in the Wimbledon Village are more expensive than in Zurich, I'd say, for similar size apartments or houses.
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  #42  
Old 29.11.2012, 20:19
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

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agreed. you can get all kinds of places in zone 1. from dirt cheap dive, to billionaire's pad.
I just looked at mouseprice.com

My old flat has an estimated value of 1,239,600 & a rental estimate of 4649 a month. My mortgage was for 35,000!
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  #43  
Old 29.11.2012, 20:22
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

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Plus, plenty of billionaire's pads in places like Wimbledon or Richmond, which are well outside of zone 1.

Rents in the Wimbledon Village are more expensive than in Zurich, I'd say, for similar size apartments or houses.
Which goes to prove my prove my Point, London prices are in reality several times more expensive than ZH.
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  #44  
Old 29.11.2012, 20:27
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

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Which goes to prove my prove my Point, London prices are in reality several times more expensive than ZH.
I wasn't disagreeing with you It's in fact what I said as well (except I wouldn't say 'several times', but 'at least if not').

I think that if the OP's personal circumstances allow, it would be financially very prudent to move to Switzerland. Of course there are other aspects to be considered.
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  #45  
Old 29.11.2012, 22:24
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

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No capital gains tax here, important for people earning lots of money!
Capital gain is only when you sell something that you make a pile on; however if you say keep a holiday home or invest in a property either to live in as primary or as pension. These assets will be taxed. Great if you buy a place for 35k in Central London 20 years ago and now it is worth 2M. Until it is sold, you get a tax liability of 2M on your tax account to pay!
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  #46  
Old 29.11.2012, 22:31
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

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Capital gain is only when you sell something that you make a pile on; however if you say keep a holiday home or invest in a property either to live in as primary or as pension. These assets will be taxed. Great if you buy a place for 35k in Central London 20 years ago and now it is worth 2M. Until it is sold, you get a tax liability of 2M on your tax account to pay!
Wealth tax is very low in CH, property is valued less than market value so it's not an issue. Of course property has been a poor investment in Switzerland for most of the last 40 years.
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  #47  
Old 30.11.2012, 15:53
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

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Wealth tax is very low in CH, property is valued less than market value so it's not an issue. Of course property has been a poor investment in Switzerland for most of the last 40 years.
certainly it is not encourage to own property in CH but if you do have a property in London (say); then it does appreciate quite nicely.. then you have to pay tax on it if that is not mortgaged to the hilt!
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  #48  
Old 30.11.2012, 16:04
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certainly it is not encourage to own property in CH but if you do have a property in London (say); then it does appreciate quite nicely.. then you have to pay tax on it if that is not mortgaged to the hilt!
I suspect using purchase price will be fine.......
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  #49  
Old 30.11.2012, 16:07
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

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certainly it is not encourage to own property in CH but if you do have a property in London (say); then it does appreciate quite nicely.. then you have to pay tax on it if that is not mortgaged to the hilt!
But you use the Verkehrswert (fair commercial value) which calculated as rental income / 7.05% and is generally much lower than the actual valuation of the property
(Percentage rate depends on building age)

eg: a house worth 1m is currently earning 2,000 monthly = 24,000pa in rent. The Verkehrswert @7.05% is 340,426, which is what you declare on your tax return.

You can apply this to the London house (assuming it is rented) and thus reduce the wealth tax due on the assets. All fully legit.

Last edited by FriendlyKiwi; 30.11.2012 at 16:40.
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  #50  
Old 30.11.2012, 16:25
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

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That salary is fine for a family of 4
indeed.

I manage on significantly less than this, and that includes pumping money into the black hole that is my old house in the UK.

Then again, I moved to CH because I wanted the life, not the money. Having a picnic in 30'c sunshine on the same mountain you were sledging on 6 months earlier takes some beating. And the vista is free.
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  #51  
Old 30.11.2012, 16:41
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

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I suspect using purchase price will be fine.......
it is the currently evaluated price that you need for tax form, plus you have to supply the original purchase document.

[QUOTE=FriendlyKiwi;1732366]
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certainly it is not encourage to own property in CH but if you do have a property in London (say); then it does appreciate quite nicely.. then you have to pay tax on it if that is not mortgaged to the hilt!/QUOTE]

But you use the Verkehrswert (fair commercial value) which calculated as rental income / 7.05% and is generally much lower than the actual valuation of the property
(Percentage rate depends on building age)

eg: a house worth 1m is currently earning 2,000 monthly = 24,000pa in rent. The Verkehrswert @7.05% is 340,426, which is what you declare on your tax return.

You can apply this to the London house (assuming it is rented) and thus reduce the wealth tax due on the assets. All fully legit.
Certainly you apply the interest paid on the mortgage to reduce the liability but the rent is income; hence it is an INCREASE in liability and not REDUCE.
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  #52  
Old 30.11.2012, 16:42
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

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My old flat has an estimated value of 1,239,600 & a rental estimate of 4649 a month. My mortgage was for 35,000!
And a Swiss wealth tax value of around 791,000
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  #53  
Old 30.11.2012, 16:44
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

what happens if your bloody gemeinde doesn't send you this mythical letter telling you what your house is supposed to be worth??
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Old 30.11.2012, 16:45
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

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what happens if your bloody gemeinde doesn't send you this mythical letter telling you what your house is supposed to be worth??
Then you use the most recent document that you have that shows the house value.
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  #55  
Old 30.11.2012, 16:46
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

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what happens if your bloody gemeinde doesn't send you this mythical letter telling you what your house is supposed to be worth??
you will be Switzerlanded! simple..
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Old 30.11.2012, 22:04
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

I think its a good change. the market is in consolidation anyways..
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  #57  
Old 30.11.2012, 22:16
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

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And a Swiss wealth tax value of around 791,000
I doubt it, the only data would show a purchase price of 135,000, and a slightly higher rateable value, so I dispute the value for Swiss wealth tax would be 791,000.
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  #58  
Old 05.12.2012, 20:01
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

Do it for the experience but not for the money. At your career level, it will be very difficult to move higher in Zurich, either in salary or career terms. Even if you spoke fluent German (as many immigrants do, e.g. the many Germans) you will still encounter a 'glass ceiling' effect. This is not just because you are limited to the business-English ecosphere, which as has been noted is reasonably big and involves reasonably senior jobs. It's also just, well, you're not Swiss. Though as you work for a consultancy it's quite likely you could move up within your own firm. Just don't count on doing it with any Swiss company.

Possibly the biggest downside for a couple, as has been mentioned, is that your partner almost certainly will struggle to find meaningful work, or even any work. It's typical for qualified professionals to look for years before finding something. That can be very uncomfortable for people who are used to working. And, as noted, you won't be making enough to support your wife as a lady of leisure, particularly not at Zurich prices.


But Switzerland is a truly fantastic place to live and a very broadening experience. You might even decide to stay permanently. But until you do, don't sell your UK property. Just rent it out, and rent in Zurich.
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Old 05.12.2012, 20:34
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

When you earn such level of salary you can stop being penny-wise and just live where you want to live if you have that opportunity. I used to live in London, USA/CA, Honolulu, then Kauai, then several places south of France, now Zurich+Lugano.
And the more I live the more fun and family overweiht extra income I could get living in a larger city.

I also from IT - run outsourcing company www.qarea.com.

Max.
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  #60  
Old 08.12.2012, 11:46
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Re: Top end of IT market - my experience of London vs Zurich

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Do it for the experience but not for the money. At your career level, it will be very difficult to move higher in Zurich, either in salary or career terms. Even if you spoke fluent German (as many immigrants do, e.g. the many Germans) you will still encounter a 'glass ceiling' effect. This is not just because you are limited to the business-English ecosphere, which as has been noted is reasonably big and involves reasonably senior jobs. It's also just, well, you're not Swiss. Though as you work for a consultancy it's quite likely you could move up within your own firm. Just don't count on doing it with any Swiss company.

Possibly the biggest downside for a couple, as has been mentioned, is that your partner almost certainly will struggle to find meaningful work, or even any work. It's typical for qualified professionals to look for years before finding something. That can be very uncomfortable for people who are used to working. And, as noted, you won't be making enough to support your wife as a lady of leisure, particularly not at Zurich prices.


But Switzerland is a truly fantastic place to live and a very broadening experience. You might even decide to stay permanently. But until you do, don't sell your UK property. Just rent it out, and rent in Zurich.
The bit about the glass ceiling is definitely true as I'm experiencing. It is also not a secret that unless Swiss you will not make it too high up in a Swiss company. This applies mostly to SME's but also larger Swiss companies. I've resulted to "dumbing down" of my qualifications. This was even advised by a career coach I'm in touch with. Boasting and showing off qualifications and wide experience will actually prevent you from landing a interview due to nature of the Swiss management being simply afraid to be challenged or made look badly. Of course you can say this about many managers in countries all over but here it is evident and proven to be the case. We foreigners are meant to be more of the "working class" types and not in the higher management ranks.
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