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Old 25.01.2013, 12:14
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Hello,

So I have a nanny contract, 40 hours a week, 4 days a week. I have Monday's off. My boss originally wrote in my contract 80%. However when i sent my contract off to get my permit I got a letter saying I was earning under minimum wage (as 40 hours a week is actually 100% even if I have one full week day off in that week). I forwarded this to my boss... instead of increasing my wage she lowers the hours ON PAPER, to 32 hours... and tells me the extra hours will be paid as overtime. However I then find out the extra hours I do (8 hours a week) will be compensated with holiday time, not money. (extra holiday time that my boss originally agreed she would give me free anyway because they wouldn't need me.)

I then told her I'd rather be paid, and just take unpaid leave on the weeks they didn't need me. However she replied saying that during unpaid leave I would not be covered by social security? However I could cover this myself for the duration of unpaid leave but that this would be lots of administrative work (basically telling me this is not an option). I worked out the overtime that is not written on the contract adds up to well over 7000CHF. I have just signed for a flat, so i HAVE to take this job or else I will be totally screwed. But I know I am being taken for a ride. I am not a stupid person, and I can tell my boss thinks she can get away with this, and I would not usually stand for this but if I don't take the job I have no money to pay for rent. (I don't officially start for a few more weeks.)

One more thing I haven't signed the NEW contract with the incorrect 32 hours a week, but I have signed the previous contract which the migration office told me has to be changed.

Can someone PLEASE give me some advice, if anyone is in the legal field of work please help me, or if anyone knows who I can talk to or go to.

Thanks.

P.S I need a way to confront my boss without the risk of losing my job??

Last edited by Caviarchips; 25.01.2013 at 23:11.
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Old 25.01.2013, 12:57
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

Hi!

You are in an unfortunate situation but what I would advise is the following:
A) do not assume she is trying to mess with you-she is your future employer and you need to start right or it will not work out. These contracts things are complicated and therefore maybe she truly does not know how to handle it.
B) if she knows you will need to work 40 hrs / week then this is what your contract should state and pay reflected accordingly. There is no "minimum wage" in CH but I would say off the top of my head, if you are evry young and inexperienced, it should be still at least 3500/4000 CHF. (This is your gross salary NOT her cost)
C) holidays: she can propose to compensate overtime with holidays, issue is overtime should be exceptional and not regular, there are some rules on this

On the how:
I would suggest setting up a meeting and approaching it more from the standpoint of "having your papers in order". Tell her you really want to do things the legal way and wish for you both to find a solution which is feasible etc etc
Do not accuse her of anything, do not aim to tell her she is wrong. Go with the facts from the authorities and tell her you would like to sort it.

Good luck
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Old 25.01.2013, 13:07
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

I was told 4 days a week was 80%. My wage was 2800. A nanny's wage is less than a normal wage because you take into consideration age, experience, qualifications etc. However my wage SHOULD have increased when I received the letter from the migration office saying i was not earning enough for the hours i was doing.

What my boss has managed to do is pay me the same even though my wage should have been increased? Instead of raising my pay, she reduced my hours on paper. (On my contract it actually has written 80% = 2800, 100%=3500) Therefore after she found out 40 hours was 100% surely I should have received the 100% pay?? (which did not happen, and i do not see this happening) I understand you can compensate with time, however she had already told me I could have the holidays for free. I would like to confront her and ask why the hours changed to 80% when I will always be working 100%? But I am so scared of losing my job because I have no savings (fresh out of uni) and I am relying on this job to pay rent.

Last edited by Castro; 28.01.2013 at 00:23. Reason: Edited at OP's request
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Old 25.01.2013, 13:15
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

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I was told 4 days a week was 80%. My wage was 2800.
With a wage like that she is definitely taking advantage of you, and likely skirting the laws with the details of working hours and pay. I would guess you would also have to make sure she is paying the social charges and any insurance necessary. There was some discussion on a basic minimum wage recently, and that would be about 4000 chf per month.

My advice, walk away and fast. Find a decent and legal employer. Advertise on this board and other places, but please do not feel so desperate to work for a person who is basically paying slave wages and doing other things that will likely not get you a legal permit.
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Old 25.01.2013, 13:18
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

She is being a tight ass and is clearly not wanting to go above a certain amount and is therefore fiddling the terms to suit her budget and demand of gemeinde.

Awkward situation if you need the money and the job.

I think we all know you will find yourself doing the 40 + hours she initially wanted and you not getting paid for it, and likely some completely random unhelpful days off that you won't have freedom over.

It really pisses me off when people want this kind of service but want to pay slave rates. If you can't afford a nanny, or a person to treat as a slave at the normal rate, then don't get one

I hope you can work something out OP, but I think this woman is clearly squeezing what she can which to me, would not bode well for the future relationship.

http://www.payscale.com/research/CH/..._Aupair/Salary
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Old 25.01.2013, 13:18
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I have already signed for an apartment, and literally cannot afford to pay for it if I don't take this job, if i don't take the job and can't find one in the next 4 weeks, I am totally screwed. Is it worth trying to talk about it first? I know that a general wage for a 100% nanny is around 3000-4000. I have never heard of a nanny being paid over 4000, so it is generally lower pay than other jobs.

Last edited by Castro; 28.01.2013 at 00:23. Reason: Edited at OP's request
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Old 25.01.2013, 13:27
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

Under your situaiton if you feel forced to take it, I would normally say do so and immediately look for something else, BUT it looks like this job will not pass muster with the authorities and they will not give you the permit for this. And realistically they should not with that wage, and then you would be jeopardising your stay here working without a permit/working illegally. If this involve working without a permit, please do not do it, the repercussions would be even more grave.
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Old 25.01.2013, 13:29
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

Most au pairs (not the same thing as a nanny!) get paid 2800 or less but that is NOT a 40 hr work week. Plus they get room and board and language classes.

The minimum you should be paid is around 20/22CHF per hour, 25/28CHF is probably why you should aim for.

I'd be interested to know how much the immigrations people mentioned you should be earning.
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Old 25.01.2013, 13:30
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The migration services agreed with the changes to the contract (changing it to 32 hours per week) despite the fact I am doing 40. So I will get my permit. Does anyone know if there is any truth in the fact that if i take unpaid leave I have to cover my own social security? If I get PAID my overtime I am earning a reasonable amount, around 3500chf. If I can show my boss that I am able to take unpaid leave and there is no administration involved then she cannot argue with me and will have to pay me my overtime.

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Most au pairs (not the same thing as a nanny!) get paid 2800 or less but that is NOT a 40 hr work week. Plus they get room and board and language classes.

The minimum you should be paid is around 20/22CHF per hour, 25/28CHF is probably why you should aim for.

I'd be interested to know how much the immigrations people mentioned you should be earning.
Migration suggested 18.50 - 22.50.

At 40 hours a week i would have been earning around 17.50, so by reducing my hours on paper to 32 hours looks like i'm earning over 21chf an hour. But as I am not getting paid my overtime, i am still earning the same amount as before.

Last edited by Castro; 28.01.2013 at 00:25. Reason: Edited at OP's request
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Old 25.01.2013, 13:38
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

With the changes to the contract you'd be making 22CHF an hour (Or 21?? I'm bad at math!).

I think you should negotiate with her that you need a minimum of 20CHF per hour not the 17CHF she is trying to pay. THEN start looking for a new job ASAP.

If you were taking paid vacations then the employer would still be paying those charges during your vacation time. Maybe she wants you to cover those charges? Not sure. But anyway, it really does sound like she is trying to squeeze you every which way. Not cool. Find a new employer.

ETA: Well, if the immigrations is suggesting the lowest salary is 18.50... then I would just take the job and start looking for a new job and get out of there as soon as possible. Employers who want to squeeze their employees every which way shouldn't be surprised when the employee abandons them as soon as they find the chance.
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Old 25.01.2013, 13:46
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

Not sure I understand all the details here, but as I read your posts, it sounds as if you and your employer initially agreed that you would be paid 2800 CHF for four ten-hour days of work, with Mondays and weekends off.

If that is the case, it appears to me that your employer merely changed the percentage on the permit paperwork from 80% to 100% based upon the comments of the gemeinde personnel as they saw that your actual hours per week would be 40, not 32.

Without adding any comment on whether your pay rate is fair or not, I will say that I don't understand how the written change for purposes of the permit paperwork translates to your employer being obligated to pay you more, if indeed you initially agreed to perform the forty hours weekly for 2800 CHF.
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Old 25.01.2013, 13:50
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

You don't only need this job to pay rent, you need it to actually have the rent contract, if the contract was actually based on you showing them your work contract.

What would be the best, and fastest, propose your boss to nanny the kid (kids) in your place, and get another kid or two, as maman de jour. Because the rate she is paying you is the going rate for nannying one child, per month at somebody elses place 40 hrs a week. Once you do it, enroll yourself immediately at a maman de jour edu, commune will help you, and register yourself at the commune, as an official nanny. The center for day care will then supply you with kids. They cannot disqualify you from the list is you are currently trying to ge the proper license.

You gain time this way. Then you see.
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Old 25.01.2013, 13:51
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

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Not sure I understand all the details here, but as I read your posts, it sounds as if you and your employer initially agreed that you would be paid 2800 CHF for four ten-hour days of work, with Mondays and weekends off.

If that is the case, it appears to me that your employer merely changed the percentage on the permit paperwork from 80% to 100% based upon the comments of the gemeinde personnel as they saw that your actual hours per week would be 40, not 32.

Without adding any comment on whether your pay rate is fair or not, I will say that I don't understand how the written change for purposes of the permit paperwork means that your employer is obligated to pay you more, if indeed you initially agreed to perform the forty hours weekly for 2800 CHF.
Well, I think the point is she now knows that she was offered too little and that her employer should step up and comply with what the authorities feel is the appropriate salary not play word games on the contract.

Personally, I think even the minimum they propose is too low! But as you say, that's another story.
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Old 25.01.2013, 13:52
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

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Not sure I understand all the details here, but as I read your posts, it sounds as if you and your employer initially agreed that you would be paid 2800 CHF for four ten-hour days of work, with Mondays and weekends off.

If that is the case, it appears to me that your employer merely changed the percentage on the permit paperwork from 80% to 100% based upon the comments of the gemeinde personnel as they saw that your actual hours per week would be 40, not 32.

Without adding any comment on whether your pay rate is fair or not, I will say that I don't understand how the written change for purposes of the permit paperwork translates to your employer being obligated to pay you more, if indeed you initially agreed to perform the forty hours weekly for 2800 CHF.
I am new in Switzerland, and was assured by my boss that 4 days per week was 80%, (not knowing it was done on hours not days.) Therefore 80% was written on my contract. So I agreed to it. However the Migration services told me I was not earning enough and 40 hours a week was in fact 100%, and therefore my last contract wasn't valid and had to be changed. Instead of simply changing the pay to a 100% wage, my boss reduced my hours in WRITING ONLY to 32, therefore meaning my pay would appear fair, and please migration. Whereas in reality I will still be working 40 hours. I have not yet signed my new contract, so there is still time to talk to my boss. I just do not know how to approach the matter.
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Old 25.01.2013, 13:55
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

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At 40 hours a week i would have been earning around 17.50, so by reducing my hours on paper to 32 hours looks like i'm earning over 21chf an hour. But as I am not getting paid my overtime, and being forced to take it as extra holiday that I just don't need, i am still earning the same amount as before. NOTHING has changed in my favour despite the fact this is what the migration services wanted to happen.
In the earlier contract you had to work approx 2000 hours per year with an annual salary of CHF 35000.
The new contract states you have to work 1600 hours per year with an annual salary of CHF 35000.

Regarding Time compensation vs. Payout plus unpaid leave. Your employer is right, the second option is a bureaucratic hazel and nightmare. In the first case you will get a regular monthly salary, in the second case everything has to be adjusted from one month to the next. Withholding tax, social security, payout etc.

My advice: Keep a very close track of your working times.
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Old 25.01.2013, 14:03
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

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Hello,

So I have a nanny contract, 40 hours a week, 4 days a week. I have Monday's off. My boss originally wrote in my contract 80%. However when i sent my contract off to get my permit I got a letter saying I was earning under minimum wage (as 40 hours a week is actually 100% even if I have one full week day off in that week). I forwarded this to my boss... instead of increasing my wage she lowers the hours ON PAPER, to 32 hours... and tells me the extra hours will be paid as overtime. However I then find out the extra hours I do (8 hours a week) will be compensated with holiday time, not money. (extra holiday time that my boss originally agreed she would give me free anyway because they wouldn't need me.)

I then told her I'd rather be paid, and just take unpaid leave on the weeks they didn't need me. However she replied saying that during unpaid leave I would not be covered by social security? However I could cover this myself for the duration of unpaid leave but that this would be lots of administrative work (basically telling me this is not an option). I worked out the overtime that is not written on the contract adds up to well over 7000CHF. I have just signed for a flat, so i HAVE to take this job or else I will be totally screwed. But I know I am being taken for a ride. I am not a stupid person, and I can tell my boss thinks she can get away with this, and I would not usually stand for this but if I don't take the job I have no money to pay for rent. (I don't officially start for a few more weeks.)

One more thing I haven't signed the NEW contract with the incorrect 32 hours a week, but I have signed the previous contract which the migration office told me has to be changed.

Can someone PLEASE give me some advice, if anyone is in the legal field of work please help me, or if anyone knows who I can talk to or go to.

Thanks.
About "she replied saying that during unpaid leave I would not be covered by social security"

How is this unpaid leave different from the 3 days a week that you are not paid for & why would the social security be different?
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Old 25.01.2013, 14:05
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

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About "she replied saying that during unpaid leave I would not be covered by social security"

How is this unpaid leave different from the 3 days a week that you are not paid for & why would the social security be different?
I don't know? If for example I took 3 weeks leave (EXTRA on top of my 4 weeks holiday), due to them not needing me should they still be paying my social security??
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Old 25.01.2013, 14:05
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

Hi

This is not really starting well and, in my opinion, the basis and trust has been scratched (at least with you). Do you really want to start working for this woman with that kind of feelings?

The flat should not be a problem. If I am not mistaken (hope an OP would correct me here) you can withdraw from a flat contract prio moving in. Maybe you would have to look for someone to take the flat over but that is much better than having such a rocky start. Have you contacted the landlord? If no, maybe you should.

Wish you good luck and do not force yourself to anything! Just not worth it!
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Old 25.01.2013, 14:15
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

Unfortunately I am not in a situation where I have a backup plan. My family home in the UK has been sold, so moving here was a way to get a fresh start. I have NO savings due to just finishing uni.

Last edited by Castro; 28.01.2013 at 00:26. Reason: Edited at OP's request
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Old 25.01.2013, 14:17
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Re: Help/advice needed urgently about work contract.

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The flat should not be a problem. If I am not mistaken (hope an OP would correct me here) you can withdraw from a flat contract prio moving in.
You are wrong. Once the ink is dry you are bound to contract and law (Minimum three month termination period). The best you can hope for is to find a replacement tenant. (Art. 266a, 266c and 264 Swiss Code of Obligation)
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