Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 14.09.2011, 20:40
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,993
Groaned at 101 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 9,106 Times in 4,522 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Unfair dismissal

I don't (necessarily) have a problem with the right to hire & fire (more or less) at will. What I find totally unethical and quite frankly appalling is the lying about why someone is being terminated. Considering it's so easy to hire & fire why the need to invent stories like "I heard you wanted to leave" BS!?

I'm rather offended by this to be honest. So I can imagine JAA is totally crazy angry.

In this particular case I would advocate going to see a lawyer. Don't think that employers haven't been successfully sued before. The certainly have. Will this case win? I don't know. But I certainly hope so!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 14.09.2011, 20:53
KeinFranzösisch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,212
Groaned at 63 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,115 Posts
KeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Unfair dismissal

Quote:
View Post
I don't (necessarily) have a problem with the right to hire & fire (more or less) at will. What I find totally unethical and quite frankly appalling is the lying about why someone is being terminated. Considering it's so easy to hire & fire why the need to invent stories like "I heard you wanted to leave" BS!?

I'm rather offended by this to be honest. So I can imagine JAA is totally crazy angry.

In this particular case I would advocate going to see a lawyer. Don't think that employers haven't been successfully sued before. The certainly have. Will this case win? I don't know. But I certainly hope so!
I'm seeing this at my company lately, too. People are being treated like disposable ink cartridges. There's no value in the human resource. If the person isn't performing precisely to the expectation or better then they are terminated, rather than invest in employee growth and development. It really is a tragedy. Company's that do this are going to find themselves with no loyalty from their employees and no fresh pool of applicants that want to come work for them.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank KeinFranzösisch for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 15.09.2011, 00:42
MarkL2005's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 142
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 65 Times in 29 Posts
MarkL2005 has made some interesting contributions
Re: Unfair dismissal

Quote:
View Post
...Company's that do this are going to find themselves with no loyalty from their employees and no fresh pool of applicants that want to come work for them.
True, but neither do they care. Staff loyalty is valued only for as long as the staff member is needed. And unfortunately, you are wrong about about the availability of new applicants. There are far too many people who, for numerous reasons, need to get a job. And most people would not do their homework about a company, or there is no info available, or they simply need the job so much that they think they will stick it out for a year and move on.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank MarkL2005 for this useful post:
  #64  
Old 15.09.2011, 00:44
MarkL2005's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 142
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 65 Times in 29 Posts
MarkL2005 has made some interesting contributions
Re: Unfair dismissal

A bit of advice for JAA. If you are thinking to begin legal action against your company, make sure you get a final certificate, which you are happy with, before you do so!!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MarkL2005 for this useful post:
  #65  
Old 15.09.2011, 09:27
HollidayG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kanton Zürich
Posts: 3,038
Groaned at 50 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 1,179 Times in 737 Posts
HollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputation
Re: Unfair dismissal

Quote:
View Post
A bit of advice for JAA. If you are thinking to begin legal action against your company, make sure you get a final certificate, which you are happy with, before you do so!!
This would be my advice as well...Make sure that you get a good work certificate and chalk it up to experience.

Unless your employer broke your contract in some way, it will come
to a "he said .... she said" type of thing in court.

In my case, the HR person( whom I did not even know ) and my manager
stood up and lied the whole time about the facts.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 15.09.2011, 09:54
KeinFranzösisch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,212
Groaned at 63 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,115 Posts
KeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Unfair dismissal

Quote:
View Post

In my case, the HR person( whom I did not even know ) and my manager
stood up and lied the whole time about the facts.
People who lack any kind of integrity like that are the scourge of the earth. How do they even enjoy their work knowing that they lie for a living?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank KeinFranzösisch for this useful post:
  #67  
Old 15.09.2011, 10:02
MarkL2005's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 142
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 65 Times in 29 Posts
MarkL2005 has made some interesting contributions
Re: Unfair dismissal

Quote:
View Post
People who lack any kind of integrity like that are the scourge of the earth. How do they even enjoy their work knowing that they lie for a living?
Either you are being sarcastic, or you have been living a sheltered life. Or I've been working far too long in a corporate environment...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MarkL2005 for this useful post:
  #68  
Old 15.09.2011, 10:50
JAA JAA is offline
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 28
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
JAA has no particular reputation at present
Re: Unfair dismissal

Quote:
View Post
Unfortunately there is no obligation in Switzerland to have a Sozialplan if the company decides to dismiss a larger group of their employees, although it is recommended. But I would certainly ask whether anything likes this will be put in place (see below link for more information). Not sure though whether you are already too far along in the process.

http://www.sozial-plan.ch/

Best,
SwissBirdie
Thank you SwissBirdie for this information. I believe that there is a sozial plan in place at our company. Unfortunately it would appear that my termination of employment is a way of the company downsizing the workforce, outside the scope and framework of a sozial plan. As previously mentioned, this has happened to several other employees in my department. I intend to seek expert advice for my particular case.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 15.09.2011, 10:55
JAA JAA is offline
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 28
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
JAA has no particular reputation at present
Re: Unfair dismissal

Quote:
View Post
Yes it really sucks, and yes you are angry, but the law here sucks and allows companies to hire and fire. Maybe that is why you got the job?

They have been generous, it could have been much worse! Make sure you get a good reference.

Ask them to pay you monthly. If you are paid in one lump sum there is more tax to pay!

Join a Union for good advice http://yellow.local.ch/en/q/?what=Un...&search=Search

Can you do temporary work in your trade? Look at http://www.adecco.ch/en-US/Pages/default.aspx many similar companies here (Kelley, Randstad). Be prepared to move cantons.

Going to a lawyer is a waste of money. For confirmation you have been correctly dismissed you can go to the Arbeitsgericht, they give free informal advice, and even free court proceedings. http://tel.local.ch/en/q/?what=Arbei...id=directories

(I have just read this is an old thread, but my advice is still good)
Thank you Ittigen for your advice and valuable insights. I intend to speak to an expert regarding my particular circumstances.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 15.09.2011, 11:03
HollidayG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kanton Zürich
Posts: 3,038
Groaned at 50 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 1,179 Times in 737 Posts
HollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputation
Re: Unfair dismissal

Quote:
View Post
People who lack any kind of integrity like that are the scourge of the earth. How do they even enjoy their work knowing that they lie for a living?
Easy. My manager was owner of the company, and he would save
money by not paying my two months notice period.

Secondly, the HR person was under duress from the manager.

On the other hand, he had to pay an attorney to fight against me
that doesn't give up easily and lose.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 15.09.2011, 11:28
JAA JAA is offline
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 28
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
JAA has no particular reputation at present
Re: Unfair dismissal

Quote:
View Post
I eventually left one employer with a very nice termination package, after I'd shown that my managers had fabricated evidence against me. You +may+ therefore have a case, and should seek legal advice.

I really don't get why some managers behave like this when it's so easy just to say "Sorry, it's not working out, goodbye". Maybe it is a case of trying to get out of their obligations.
Thanks NotAllThere. It is nice to hear that it worked out for the best in your case. I will seek expert advice.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 15.09.2011, 11:33
JAA JAA is offline
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 28
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
JAA has no particular reputation at present
Re: Unfair dismissal

Quote:
View Post
A bit of advice for JAA. If you are thinking to begin legal action against your company, make sure you get a final certificate, which you are happy with, before you do so!!
Excellent advice MarkL2005!. I will wait until I receive the final reference letter.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 15.09.2011, 12:16
JAA JAA is offline
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 28
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
JAA has no particular reputation at present
Re: Unfair dismissal


Thank you everyone for your valuable words of advice. Reading the postshas been immensely encouraging. I now feel a lot more informed about how tobest proceed with addressing the bizarre predicament that I currently findmyself in.
I have significant evidence that my former managers have committed multipleintegrity violations. – Both in relation to my termination of employment and intheir daily business. Based on the information provided, I will seek expertadvice, weigh up the pros and the cons and follow a course of action that isappropriate. – If in fact action is what is required.
In the meantime, I am fully focused on my job search. I see that it isthe most productive and positive thing that I can do right now.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 15.09.2011, 16:33
MarkL2005's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 142
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 65 Times in 29 Posts
MarkL2005 has made some interesting contributions
Re: Unfair dismissal

Quote:
View Post
..I will wait until I receive the final reference letter.
But don't wait and wait and wait...They are obliged to give you a final certificate within a "reasonable" period. I would get your former HR rep to commit to a date (e.g. 2 weeks). But also bear in mind that the final cert does not get issued until you are no longer employed. So if you are laid off now but still being paid, you won't get it yet.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 15.09.2011, 16:34
HollidayG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kanton Zürich
Posts: 3,038
Groaned at 50 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 1,179 Times in 737 Posts
HollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputation
Re: Unfair dismissal

Quote:
View Post
Thank you everyone for your valuable words of advice. Reading the postshas been immensely encouraging. I now feel a lot more informed about how tobest proceed with addressing the bizarre predicament that I currently findmyself in.
I have significant evidence that my former managers have committed multipleintegrity violations. – Both in relation to my termination of employment and intheir daily business. Based on the information provided, I will seek expertadvice, weigh up the pros and the cons and follow a course of action that isappropriate. – If in fact action is what is required.
In the meantime, I am fully focused on my job search. I see that it isthe most productive and positive thing that I can do right now.
Remember, integrity violations are not legal violations. A court is
for solving legal problems.

Additionally, an attorney is only in this to make money. Be
careful of what he/she is telling you...

Good Luck!!

Regards,
Been there, done that
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 15.09.2011, 17:31
Mica's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 821
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1,053 Times in 466 Posts
Mica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Unfair dismissal

Quote:
View Post
Additionally, an attorney is only in this to make money. Be careful of what he/she is telling you...
Ouch... that hurts! The same could be applied to any service provider, advisor or craftsmen. I always tell my clients when it doesn't make sense (cost/risk/benefit) to pursue a matter. Then again I do most work for repeat clients.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 15.09.2011, 19:43
KeinFranzösisch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,212
Groaned at 63 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,115 Posts
KeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Unfair dismissal

Quote:
View Post
Either you are being sarcastic, or you have been living a sheltered life. Or I've been working far too long in a corporate environment...
Well. I wasn't being sarcastic, I can tell you that much.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 16.09.2011, 09:31
HollidayG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kanton Zürich
Posts: 3,038
Groaned at 50 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 1,179 Times in 737 Posts
HollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputation
Re: Unfair dismissal

Quote:
View Post
Ouch... that hurts! The same could be applied to any service provider, advisor or craftsmen. I always tell my clients when it doesn't make sense (cost/risk/benefit) to pursue a matter. Then again I do most work for repeat clients.
I am sorry, but it was not meant as a personal insult.

My attorney told me that he could only appeal the decision of the Prudhomme/Arbeitsgericht one time. Now, we are going all
the way to the Bundesgericht. In the meantime, I had to pay
my attorney an extra 5K CHF.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
abusive dismissal, compensation, employment lawyer, sack




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Advice needed on how to fight unfair medical charges ccmiller Insurance 3 15.10.2007 20:34


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:24.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0