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  #21  
Old 01.07.2013, 09:32
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Re: Job offer and what to ask when coming off RAV

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If the hours are other than the normal office working hours, or there is international travel involved then the job offer would state that. If you couldn't accept them then you simply wouldn't apply for it. It is you who is applying for jobs, RAV doesn't look for jobs on your behalf.

The OP has a child that goes to a creche as the mother is working. The welfare of the child must also be taken into consideration. Alternatively, if the OP has now work but the wife must stop and look for work that allows her to bring and collect the child from the creche this also doesn't benefit the RAV.
Thanks for the comments. As I mentioned before I did not apply. They called me and it just went easy like that. And of course they don't advertise long hours, why would they. This is common stuff. I've worked for plenty of banks in other countries where we were every day in the office past midnight. Of course they don't advertise this and it's technically not legal to force it. But if you don't do it you just lose your job. It's fine if you are single but when you need to organize things around a child there is no real alternative, at least not in Switzerland where the system is set up for regular hours.

I'm not from Europe so this all is new to me. Where I come from they don't care about what your family situation is. Either you put 150% or they find somebody else. Again that was fine when I was young but not now. And my wife is European so totally not accepting of this attitude.
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  #22  
Old 01.07.2013, 09:38
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Re: Job offer and what to ask when coming off RAV

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I think you should be up-front. If he says sorry, no can do, then it is just like me going to an interview and then for them to say later, sorry we don't find you suitable. I don't see how this is breaking any rules.

Is this the type of job where you could do part (or all) of your work from home, so you could pick up your child and then carry on if required?
Thanks. This is a constructive comment and I think what I will do and ask about directly with my immediate boss before I accept. It could be he says he thinks it won't work just like you say. Bu no amount of money can change my obligation to my child.

I'm not sure if the work can really be done from home. You need to be the with your team at least most of the time.

I wonder if I am asking something too much here. But many of my colleagues in swiss with similar backgrounds as mine have work that is mostly 8ish to 6ish and well paid. At least enough to support a whole family. Occasionally it's longer and with travel but the organization seems to respect the family and societal norms of the country, which are good for families and work productivity. Only this is a foreign firm with a US headquarter so they have more the culture of not really caring about what is normal in switzerland. The MD even told me "swiss get paid too much and dont have to work for their money". I think also this could be a reason they have trouble to find people here.
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  #23  
Old 01.07.2013, 22:43
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Re: Job offer and what to ask when coming off RAV

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Thanks. This is a constructive comment and The MD even told me "swiss get paid too much and dont have to work for their money". I think also this could be a reason they have trouble to find people here.
Yes, I was pondering what you said in your earlier post about people getting fired after 6 months. It doesn't make sense to get people integrated and then sack them. It must be very unproductive. So I was wondering if the reason was simply because they weren't very good or suitable for the post, because actually they are the only type of people that the offered salary would attract (no offense intended as to your skill level). (i.e. If you pay peanuts, you will get monkeys, as the saying goes..)

Therefore if you are a really competent person he should thank his starts that you are willing to work for him and you should push this home, maybe this could be your bargaining chip. i.e. you tell him,(not exactly in these words of course) "I'm bloody good at my job, I'll do great things for you, but here are my conditions"

Maybe even a subtle hint about his employee turnover... Like, you plan to be with this company for many years..just for fun...

As your wife is more in-tune to the local culture then it makes sense to take what she has to say on board.
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  #24  
Old 25.07.2013, 08:54
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Re: Job offer and what to ask when coming off RAV

Hi all. Hope you are still listening.

So I got the offer and it seems like it should be ok. But, I had to explain this issue about how I need to drop the kid at the krippe, get to work and then get home to get him. It went over well in the interview but now that I see the contract it seems like they basically didn't hear me.

I am still gonna take it and hope for the best. But, does anybody know what happens if they fire me or I quite and need to go back onto the RAV after just a few months? Do I get a penalty, do I have to wait a bit? It just seems that if they can punish you for not taking a job they can just as easily punish you if you take one and then quite again. Just not sure if this whole thing is gonna work with the family so I'm a bit nervous. Wish it were closer to home

I should add that I am going to keep sending the 10-14 applications a month because I am hoping to get something closer by.
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Old 25.07.2013, 11:05
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Re: Job offer and what to ask when coming off RAV

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Hi all. Hope you are still listening.

So I got the offer and it seems like it should be ok. But, I had to explain this issue about how I need to drop the kid at the krippe, get to work and then get home to get him. It went over well in the interview but now that I see the contract it seems like they basically didn't hear me.

I am still gonna take it and hope for the best. But, does anybody know what happens if they fire me or I quite and need to go back onto the RAV after just a few months? Do I get a penalty, do I have to wait a bit? It just seems that if they can punish you for not taking a job they can just as easily punish you if you take one and then quite again. Just not sure if this whole thing is gonna work with the family so I'm a bit nervous. Wish it were closer to home

I should add that I am going to keep sending the 10-14 applications a month because I am hoping to get something closer by.
I was in a similar situation, on RAV, got a job with bad conditions from which I got fired after 2 months. Going back on RAV was not a problem as such although my "counsellor" was not happy to see me again so soon! I would accept the job if no other offer is available, don't quit it if you are unhappy, just work as it suits you to work and if the company don't accept this they will sack you anyway. And yes, keep applying for something better.
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  #26  
Old 25.07.2013, 12:28
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Re: Job offer and what to ask when coming off RAV

Why not just take this job while you continue looking for a better one? As someone already mentioned: if you're already employed you're easier to hire. Also, you have more salary negotiation leverage.

Also, if you're worried about a 2 month job "tainting" your CV you can always say it was a "temporary" or "consulting" job or leave it out of your CV altogether. No one says your CV has to list every small job you ever had, only the ones that were relevant.
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  #27  
Old 25.07.2013, 12:31
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Re: Job offer and what to ask when coming off RAV

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Yes, I was pondering what you said in your earlier post about people getting fired after 6 months. It doesn't make sense to get people integrated and then sack them. It must be very unproductive. So I was wondering if the reason was simply because they weren't very good or suitable for the post, because actually they are the only type of people that the offered salary would attract (no offense intended as to your skill level). (i.e. If you pay peanuts, you will get monkeys, as the saying goes..)

Therefore if you are a really competent person he should thank his starts that you are willing to work for him and you should push this home, maybe this could be your bargaining chip. i.e. you tell him,(not exactly in these words of course) "I'm bloody good at my job, I'll do great things for you, but here are my conditions"

Maybe even a subtle hint about his employee turnover... Like, you plan to be with this company for many years..just for fun...

As your wife is more in-tune to the local culture then it makes sense to take what she has to say on board.
It sounds like you've never worked for a Swiss corporation...
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  #28  
Old 25.07.2013, 13:53
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Re: Job offer and what to ask when coming off RAV

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Also, if you're worried about a 2 month job "tainting" your CV you can always say it was a "temporary" or "consulting" job or leave it out of your CV altogether. No one says your CV has to list every small job you ever had, only the ones that were relevant.
That's what I did at my next interview, just said it was a 2 month project related contract. And I got the job!
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  #29  
Old 25.07.2013, 14:07
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Re: Job offer and what to ask when coming off RAV

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Hi all. Hope you are still listening.

So I got the offer and it seems like it should be ok.
I see the contract it seems like they basically didn't hear me.

I am still gonna take it and hope for the best.
Just not sure if this whole thing is gonna work with the family so I'm a bit nervous.
Wish it were closer to home

I am hoping to get something closer by.

Hi, Not sure how many times previous I have read this thread, again read it all the way through from the beginning.

I wish you & your family all the best.

Any job, until one starts one never really knows how one will fit in and what benefit one can make to a new organisation & be appreciated or not. There is always politics, whether one is CEO or the person washing the floor.

Hope this is a stepping stone to a better future to you & your family
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  #30  
Old 25.07.2013, 14:59
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Re: Job offer and what to ask when coming off RAV

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Hi all. Hope you are still listening.

So I got the offer and it seems like it should be ok. But, I had to explain this issue about how I need to drop the kid at the krippe, get to work and then get home to get him. It went over well in the interview but now that I see the contract it seems like they basically didn't hear me.

I am still gonna take it and hope for the best. But, does anybody know what happens if they fire me or I quite and need to go back onto the RAV after just a few months? Do I get a penalty, do I have to wait a bit? It just seems that if they can punish you for not taking a job they can just as easily punish you if you take one and then quite again. Just not sure if this whole thing is gonna work with the family so I'm a bit nervous. Wish it were closer to home

I should add that I am going to keep sending the 10-14 applications a month because I am hoping to get something closer by.
I thought there was a limit on the distance before you had to accept a job. I mean if its 2 hours away you will not be forced to take it.

I accepted a job in Lausanne even though I live near Zurich and my adviser at the RAV told me I do not have to take the job and would not get penalized if I didn't! I did take it in the end because it was a good job and the only one on offer. Now I live a double life
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  #31  
Old 25.07.2013, 15:33
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Re: Job offer and what to ask when coming off RAV

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Why not just take this job while you continue looking for a better one? As someone already mentioned: if you're already employed you're easier to hire. Also, you have more salary negotiation leverage.

Also, if you're worried about a 2 month job "tainting" your CV you can always say it was a "temporary" or "consulting" job or leave it out of your CV altogether. No one says your CV has to list every small job you ever had, only the ones that were relevant.
Yes that is the plan
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  #32  
Old 25.07.2013, 15:36
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Re: Job offer and what to ask when coming off RAV

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I thought there was a limit on the distance before you had to accept a job. I mean if its 2 hours away you will not be forced to take it.

I accepted a job in Lausanne even though I live near Zurich and my adviser at the RAV told me I do not have to take the job and would not get penalized if I didn't! I did take it in the end because it was a good job and the only one on offer. Now I live a double life
It's less than two hours. But the krippe only opens at 730 and closes at 630. So 90 minutes commute means 9-5. And that's not the 42.5 hours in the contract. Or the overtime it says I won't be paid for.
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  #33  
Old 25.07.2013, 20:14
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Re: Job offer and what to ask when coming off RAV

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It sounds like you've never worked for a Swiss corporation...
You are correct, never have. I cannot imagine how an industry could be so plug and play that for every person you "unplug" there are 10 with the exact same function waiting to take their place. Doesn't feel like a position anyone would want to work towards.
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  #34  
Old 25.07.2013, 20:27
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Re: Job offer and what to ask when coming off RAV

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Hi all. Hope you are still listening.

So I got the offer and it seems like it should be ok. But, I had to explain this issue about how I need to drop the kid at the krippe, get to work and then get home to get him. It went over well in the interview but now that I see the contract it seems like they basically didn't hear me.


I should add that I am going to keep sending the 10-14 applications a month because I am hoping to get something closer by.
I second what others have said. Take the job, but look for a better one. Let them sack you if they don't like you going at the necessary time to collect your kid. If they do, do send them a letter of complaint reminding them that you informed them about it at the interview, and to their heartless behaviour. And let us know his name and address so we can all give him a piece of our mind as well .

It should hopefully make RAV more amenable too.
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  #35  
Old 19.05.2021, 20:04
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Re: Job offer and what to ask when coming off RAV

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If you put the original job application on your RAV form , you MUST give them information you receive from the company the SAME MONTH. When you sign the form your declaring that the info is true & complete.

Be very careful, if they find out you have turned down paid work it's very serious.
So what happens if I put one job in one month let's say March, and they they get back to me with an offer on April or May. (because there were interviews in between). My RAV officer never asks me to put updates of old jobs in the new month sheet but what about in the call.

Also if the job is more than 2 hours away I can just say no without any consequences right? Even though I did apply to that job knowing it's location so it seems a bit of a loophole.
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  #36  
Old 19.05.2021, 20:06
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Re: Job offer and what to ask when coming off RAV

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So what happens if I put one job in one month let's say March, and they they get back to me with an offer on April or May. (because there were interviews in between). My RAV officer never asks me to put updates of old jobs in the new month sheet but what about in the call.

Also if the job is more than 2 hours away I can just say no without any consequences right? Even though I did apply to that job knowing it's location so it seems a bit of a loophole.
Nothing

Yes
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