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Old 10.02.2008, 21:20
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Software quality in Switzerland

Hi IT guys in this forum,

Although Swiss IT firms are not big and famous, and some say that in Europe Switzerland is not an "IT country" (while being compared to the Netherlands, for example), I would want to see the connection between Swiss precision and Software quality.

I do not have much experience in working in a professional Swiss IT firm, and don't know what are the Swiss best-practices to software Quality Assurance (QA). If I google this term in English, I would be lead to some US firms/people.

To provide more information, I love the Agile Mentality, with several infamous methodologies: Continuous Integration, Extreme Programming, Test Driven Development, Refactoring, ..., you name it. I have been and am reading Martin Fowler, Joshua Bloch, Scott W. Ambler, Robert. L. Glass, ...

To be more specific, I would love to get in touch with people here working in IT and to learn how production-quality code is provided in Switzerland.

I would like to see how IT guys are working daily:
- Do we work 8AM to 5PM, with two coffee-breaks at 10AM and 3PM, and focus only on getting the most out of a daily work time
- Do we focus on project deadlines, which means that we can work over time at the evening, at weekends. We get extra payment and we are proud that our company is competing well in an era where Indian companies are offering low-cost products.
- Are we ready to deliver an initial product to the client, and are ready to work with them to continuously improve the code upon their feed backs. Or we can ask the clients to wait and only deliver to them what is stable-and-nearly-no-bug.

Thanks for your time, IT guys.

Last edited by dalton; 10.02.2008 at 22:25.
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Old 10.02.2008, 21:31
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

You will have more success if in Google you go to Google Switzerland, click the "pages from Switzerland" radial button, then type in "swiss software", hit enter.

Now get out of here quick before the hoards of ex-pat IT pros tromple you.
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Old 10.02.2008, 21:37
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

Arh, I'm using and loving Total Commander, a swiss product.
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Old 10.02.2008, 21:48
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

I've used it since the first Windows Commander version and ever since. The developer lives about 3km from me, but I've never seen him. Hmmm...
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Old 10.02.2008, 22:04
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

Should we sound the Geek-Groupie alert siren at 12 ?

dave


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I've used it since the first Windows Commander version and ever since. The developer lives about 3km from me, but I've never seen him. Hmmm...
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Old 10.02.2008, 22:10
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

Nooo, anything but that, poor guy!
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Old 11.02.2008, 13:45
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

Up up
Just to pop up this topic :-)
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Old 11.02.2008, 14:06
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

what is your question? You're asking about testing but do you want to know about SDLC or testing or the whole thing? Waterfall/spiral/Fagan inspections?

If I could tell what your question actually was, I might be able to offer an opinion.
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Old 12.02.2008, 15:02
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

Hello
1. Software quality is not only about Testing
2. Waterfall is outdated, nearly no one uses it anymore
3. Spiral is classic, but how do we make spiral development practically is the problem
3. Fagan inspection: I don't know

So my question is: what is specific in the way Swiss IT guy do, that is not documented somewhere in some famous main-stream books ?

Thanks
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Old 12.02.2008, 15:10
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

hi three,
I don't know what is the question exactly.
but, the usual answer to some of your points is : "It depends".
a typical IT answer, heh :-)

I work in Bern, in IT and I have the feeling that IT projects are a little bit slower and takes more time. (typical Bern)
however, less maintenance is required after the project is rolled out into production.

most of the IT department is International, not much Swiss.
most of the software we are using is non-swiss based, however highly customized.

hope this helps.
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Old 12.02.2008, 15:22
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

Working in a Swiss investment bank, being a multi national company, things seem to work the same as in any large financial institution around the world. The true and tried methodoligy of throwing mud at the wall and seeing what is still sticking after the almost daily random changes to requirements and deadlines. We then dump the whole mess on a happless test engineer and see what his system tests (derived from a requirements document the developers never got shown) and regression tests throw back at us.

Luckily changes go take so long to get anywhere we don't get much chance to screw things up completely.

Ahhhh, how I miss the good old dot.com days of hacking code directly in production while customers where trying to use the system. Now that is what I call agile programming.
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Old 12.02.2008, 16:59
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

Yes, some say Agile Programming is an idiot name to call the practice people have been using for decades
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Old 12.02.2008, 17:10
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

I don't understand the question either but here goes for a Private Bank

- Most of our development IS outsourced to an Indian company. They are excellent, you would be hard pushed to compete with them in their field on cost, knowledge or quality.
- We focus on working office hours where possible, we work to deadlines but I wouldn't exactly call them tight.
- The slow pace is generally expected and accepted.
- The quality of our applications is good but normally takes so long to reach production that the technology is dated by the time the app has any serious uptake.
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Old 12.02.2008, 17:50
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

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Yes, some say Agile Programming is an idiot name to call the practice people have been using for decades
Yes, in a way. But previously when a sales guy came to senior management trying to sell him some commercial methodoligy for millions, all we could say was "Why? What we do works and is cheap". Now we can respond, "Got that covered boss. We are fully compliant with Agile which is the leading industry best practice methodology." Far more powerful for convincing the pointy haired boss, especially when he doesn't even know what it means.
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Old 13.02.2008, 13:01
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

The three posts by

- Asmaklad
"I work in Bern, in IT and I have the feeling that IT projects are a little bit slower and takes more time. (typical Bern)
however, less maintenance is required after the project is rolled out into production.

most of the IT department is International, not much Swiss.
most of the software we are using is non-swiss based, however highly customized."


- Woodsie
"Working in a Swiss investment bank, being a multi national company, things seem to work the same as in any large financial institution around the world. The true and tried methodoligy of throwing mud at the wall and seeing what is still sticking after the almost daily random changes to requirements and deadlines. We then dump the whole mess on a happless test engineer and see what his system tests (derived from a requirements document the developers never got shown) and regression tests throw back at us.

Luckily changes go take so long to get anywhere we don't get much chance to screw things up completely."


- Peachy
"here goes for a Private Bank

- Most of our development IS outsourced to an Indian company. They are excellent, you would be hard pushed to compete with them in their field on cost, knowledge or quality.
- We focus on working office hours where possible, we work to deadlines but I wouldn't exactly call them tight.
- The slow pace is generally expected and accepted.
- The quality of our applications is good but normally takes so long to reach production that the technology is dated by the time the app has any serious uptake."


contribute to answer to my curiosity

Thank you guys

And hope that this topic is not yet finished.
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Old 13.02.2008, 13:04
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

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Working in a Swiss investment bank, being a multi national company, things seem to work the same as in any large financial institution around the world. The true and tried methodoligy of throwing mud at the wall and seeing what is still sticking after the almost daily random changes to requirements and deadlines. We then dump the whole mess on a happless test engineer and see what his system tests (derived from a requirements document the developers never got shown) and regression tests throw back at us.

Luckily changes go take so long to get anywhere we don't get much chance to screw things up completely.

Ahhhh, how I miss the good old dot.com days of hacking code directly in production while customers where trying to use the system. Now that is what I call agile programming.
Ah, you also work at UBS.
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Old 13.02.2008, 13:08
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

For me, working in a university lab and its spin-off company

- For the lab (team of two coders): meeting weekly, almost no pressure. We try to sell our knowledge (in terms of solution) to a financial company. Deadline passed several times, no big complain
- For the company (team of two coders and several hardware engineer): very bad project management, almost always speak Swiss German. But individual works are good.


I wish this company to have a weekly or monthly report of what each person has done in that period of time, so that every one could learn from the other. This timely report is a pressure to force employees to work better, and is a good tool for the employers to "monitor" and to force these employees to work more.

Thanks
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Old 13.02.2008, 13:16
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

Quote:
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The three posts by

- Asmaklad
"I work in Bern, in IT and I have the feeling that IT projects are a little bit slower and takes more time. (typical Bern)
however, less maintenance is required after the project is rolled out into production.

most of the IT department is International, not much Swiss.
most of the software we are using is non-swiss based, however highly customized."


- Woodsie
"Working in a Swiss investment bank, being a multi national company, things seem to work the same as in any large financial institution around the world. The true and tried methodoligy of throwing mud at the wall and seeing what is still sticking after the almost daily random changes to requirements and deadlines. We then dump the whole mess on a happless test engineer and see what his system tests (derived from a requirements document the developers never got shown) and regression tests throw back at us.

Luckily changes go take so long to get anywhere we don't get much chance to screw things up completely."


- Peachy
"here goes for a Private Bank

- Most of our development IS outsourced to an Indian company. They are excellent, you would be hard pushed to compete with them in their field on cost, knowledge or quality.
- We focus on working office hours where possible, we work to deadlines but I wouldn't exactly call them tight.
- The slow pace is generally expected and accepted.
- The quality of our applications is good but normally takes so long to reach production that the technology is dated by the time the app has any serious uptake."


contribute to answer to my curiosity

Thank you guys

And hope that this topic is not yet finished.
Well I was starting to think my contracting days were numbered, but since I managed to provide a valid answer to a question I had absolutely no understanding of I think I may be good for a few years yet.
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Old 13.02.2008, 13:27
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

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Ah, you also work at UBS.
It shows? It must be from all the positive things I say about my work and the fact that I am not even a little bit Jaded about the big pile of steaming poo that I have to battle through each day. But I was quite excited at the end of last year when they updated our systems to new technology that I was working on three years ago.
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Old 13.02.2008, 16:18
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Re: Software quality in Switzerland

Some of you will think this is a good article
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