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Old 09.12.2013, 17:38
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Self employed or not self employed?

Hi, I need some help and wonder if anyone else has had my situation. I moved to Switzerland a year ago after more than 20 years based in Madrid, Spain. For the last 14 years in Spain I have been self employed. I am a Business Consultant (Sales and Marketing) and also provide Competency Development programs (training courses). My work comes from larger consulting and training companies often based in UK who are contracted to provide services to global companies such as Microsoft, etc. They employ me to do something for their customer and I often travel and work in the offices of the end customer (usually another country, not UK, not Switzerland). I then invoice the consulting or training company and they pay me. I have no contractual relationship with the end customer of the consulting or training company. Also I have no employment contract with the consulting and training company; they have no obligation to give me work and I have no commitment to work for them unless I choose to do so. The Swiss say I am not self employed but employed by the consulting or training company who give me the project and as such want to treat me as employed. The end result is I have to pay both the employee and employer AVS contributions etc. Anyone out there that can help me sort this out? I would be grateful to hear of any similar experiences or from anyone who can offer me professional advice. Thanks.
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Old 09.12.2013, 17:41
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Re: Self employed or not self employed, that is the question!

more threads than paragraphs.....!

you work through one entity? You are not self-employed if that's true.

really, use paragraphs. It's much easier to read.
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Old 09.12.2013, 17:41
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Re: Self employed or not self employed?

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Hi, I need some help and wonder if anyone else has had my situation. I moved to Switzerland a year ago after more than 20 years based in Madrid, Spain. For the last 14 years in Spain I have been self employed. I am a Business Consultant (Sales and Marketing) and also provide Competency Development programs (training courses). My work comes from larger consulting and training companies often based in UK who are contracted to provide services to global companies such as Microsoft, etc. They employ me to do something for their customer and I often travel and work in the offices of the end customer (usually another country, not UK, not Switzerland). I then invoice the consulting or training company and they pay me. I have no contractual relationship with the end customer of the consulting or training company. Also I have no employment contract with the consulting and training company; they have no obligation to give me work and I have no commitment to work for them unless I choose to do so. The Swiss say I am not self employed but employed by the consulting or training company who give me the project and as such want to treat me as employed. The end result is I have to pay both the employee and employer AVS contributions etc. Anyone out there that can help me sort this out? I would be grateful to hear of any similar experiences or from anyone who can offer me professional advice. Thanks.
Thats generally the situation, you have to be seen to be taking risk, so make sure you have a website & offer your services to the world. If you choose when & how the work is done your self employed, if you carry out the work at their offices during normal working hours your probably an employee.

i have the same issue, doing a single days work as a one off.
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Old 09.12.2013, 17:47
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Re: Self employed or not self employed, that is the question!

Thanks Sean, fast reply ... sorry for no paragraphs.

In a normal year I will work for 3 or 4 entities.

The Swiss say I provide Outsourcing or Subcontracted services and these are considered to be employed relationships .....
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Old 09.12.2013, 17:54
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Re: Self employed or not self employed, that is the question!

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Thanks Sean, fast reply ... sorry for no paragraphs.

In a normal year I will work for 3 or 4 entities.

The Swiss say I provide Outsourcing or Subcontracted services and these are considered to be employed relationships .....
Thats basically correct, you can be self employed with ZERO clients, however it does look as through you work for 5 companies as an employee.
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Old 09.12.2013, 18:41
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Re: Self employed or not self employed, that is the question!

Can you increase your fees to cover your extra AHV payment?
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Old 09.12.2013, 20:56
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Re: Self employed or not self employed, that is the question!

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In a normal year I will work for 3 or 4 entities.
Many years ago when I was doing this kind of stuff, I think the magic number was 7 concurrent clients….
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