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Old 16.12.2013, 21:15
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

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Wrong, from personal experience and from friends at EPFL, I can confirm that no unemployment benefits are granted after a non-EU PhD/post doc contract ends, even with plenty of time left for the permit to run out. They dont even bother to ask if you are actively looking for a job or not.
Exactly, I can also confirm from two friends that just finished PhD, one from China got nothing (not even the 6 months), and the other from Germany get it quiet easily even though he turned down taking jobs elsewhere.
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  #62  
Old 16.12.2013, 21:18
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

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Tough, deal with it.
Tom
hmm, I thought for a second you were trying to justify it because it was fair.
I am dealing with no worries.
Thanks for playing.
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Old 16.12.2013, 21:21
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

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A simple analogy maybe could explain to you. When you pay for health insurance you expect to get something back when you are sick. Not to be told, "sorry, we cannot cover your health expenses because you have no permit to stay here if you cannot work".
And what happens if you become sick after you had to leave the country?
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Old 16.12.2013, 21:23
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

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hmm, I thought for a second you were trying to justify it because it was fair.
Taxes and insurance are NEVER fair.

Tom
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Old 16.12.2013, 21:33
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

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And what happens if you become sick after you had to leave the country?
false analogy, the unemployement insurance should cover you for just that, for the TIME you become unemployed.
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Old 16.12.2013, 21:41
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

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false analogy, the unemployement insurance should cover you for just that, for the TIME you become unemployed.
I don't understand your point. Health insurance should cover you for just that - when you become sick.

The commonality between the two cases is that you don't have anything of it, if you had to leave the country before.
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Old 16.12.2013, 21:50
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

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false analogy, the unemployement insurance should cover you for just that, for the TIME you become unemployed.
Well, I certainly agree that they should pay you from when you become unemployed until you leave.

Are they refusing that?

Tom
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Old 16.12.2013, 21:55
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

This seems to be a Post doc permit issue and not an EU vs non-EU thing, because non-EU workers HAVE had their permits extend through the time their benefits are over, though recently they seem to be denying them more so now than before.

And, even in the US you will pay un-employment and social security contributions even if you are never eligible for them.
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Old 16.12.2013, 21:58
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

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even in the US you will pay un-employment and social security contributions even if you are never eligible for them.
Which I have been trying to point out, to no avail.

Tom
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Old 16.12.2013, 22:37
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

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Which I have been trying to point out, to no avail.

Tom
People are too busy fighting to worry about the details.
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Old 17.12.2013, 08:09
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

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Which I have been trying to point out, to no avail.

Tom
It's true, but it doesn't mean it feels fair there, or here.
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Old 17.12.2013, 08:50
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

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People are too busy fighting to worry about the details.
Indeed they are, But this is the internet, where the general rule is never to let the facts get in the way of a good argument.
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Old 17.12.2013, 11:02
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

I wonder if this is because OP's permit was work-study and not straight work? Students are only allowed to work a certain number of hours, and maybe those hours worked over the past few years are not sufficient under RAV to be eligible for money? Just a guess. Not sure.
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Old 17.12.2013, 11:15
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

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I wonder if this is because OP's permit was work-study and not straight work? Students are only allowed to work a certain number of hours, and maybe those hours worked over the past few years are not sufficient under RAV to be eligible for money? Just a guess. Not sure.
No. OP is a postdoc, which is considered as 100% work and not student. So it is not because his past working hours does not suffice for the RAV benefit. But postdoc seems to be considered as a special work which is related to kind of further training and is associated with a special type of permit which does not grant all rights and benefits of "normal" permit.
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Old 17.12.2013, 12:34
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

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Indeed they are, But this is the internet, where the general rule is never to let the facts get in the way of a good argument.
I have no interest to argue online. I came here looking to hear from people with similar experiences, and still want to hear just that. But, some trolls showed up arguing that it is fair because it is done in other places. Yes, many injustices are done in other places too, but that doesn't make them right nor should we accept them; or just move out!
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Old 17.12.2013, 12:39
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

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I wonder if this is because OP's permit was work-study and not straight work? Students are only allowed to work a certain number of hours, and maybe those hours worked over the past few years are not sufficient under RAV to be eligible for money? Just a guess. Not sure.
Correct, it is a work study permit. But I am still working 100% and no study at all. But that doesn't really change anything, because still an EU with a similar work permit is eligible for RAV and I know people in this situation.
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Old 17.12.2013, 13:01
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

Postdoc positions, even though paid at 100%, are likely considered temporary.
Perhaps, this was the reason why you were rejected for extension.
I would say this: treat your RAV contribution as an additional tax.
Considering the high postdoc salaries in Switzerland (especially in comparison to the USA), don't waste your time on this and focus your energy on more important stuff.
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Old 17.12.2013, 13:55
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

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Postdoc positions, even though paid at 100%, are likely considered temporary.
Perhaps, this was the reason why you were rejected for extension.
I would say this: treat your RAV contribution as an additional tax.
Considering the high postdoc salaries in Switzerland (especially in comparison to the USA), don't waste your time on this and focus your energy on more important stuff.
Exactly right, postdoc positions are in a different class to normal work contracts in Switzerland (for example, temporary work contracts (i.e. one year or less) must be extended to permanent contracts after a number of years here- postdoc contracts are exempt from this).

However, I think the RAV issue doesn't have much to do with the OP's contract, but rather the non-EU issue and work permit. Unfortunately there really is no way around this, EU citizens have more rights of access to the Swiss welfare system, and these rights are reciprocated to Swiss people in EU countries.

Instead of fighting a futile battle, I would recommend the OP to work out a way to get this money back- non EU people can leave the country and take their 2nd and 3rd pillar as cash with them- and I'm pretty sure I've heard a few stories about people getting there entire contributions back too (not sure if this applies to the unemployment deductions though).
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Old 17.12.2013, 13:58
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

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Postdoc positions, even though paid at 100%, are likely considered temporary.
Perhaps, this was the reason why you were rejected for extension.
I would say this: treat your RAV contribution as an additional tax.
Considering the high postdoc salaries in Switzerland (especially in comparison to the USA), don't waste your time on this and focus your energy on more important stuff.
I have much confusion about postdoc jobs, esp how they are classified. Usually they work at 100% but the contract is fixed-term.

The other day also I read on EF about a postdoc with an open-ended contract. Don't know how this case will turn out finally.
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Old 17.12.2013, 13:58
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Re: RAV support for no-EU postdoc?

I was once a post doc in the US on a UK/EU passport with a J1 visa. After about 4 years ,and at the time of my visa renewal, they told me that this kind of academic visa was no longer renewable even though I still had another 1 year left of my grant money/research .It could only be renewed after a one year gap ‘serving’the home country. I had to leave the country immediately and became illegal from next day. The system was so irrational and at times brutal. My life turned upside down. And so the post doc became history and so did the US. I will never know what benefits, if any, I will ever get from all the social security contributions that I made while working in the US. What I do know, however, is that the Swiss system is far more civilised and rational than the one in US or UK, or indeed any other country that I know of.

I agree the Swiss system has it’s faults, but come on, which other country pays a foreign worker 70-80% of his monthly salary for a whole year after contributing by way of work for only 12 months? Sadly the OP is not benefiting but there are many more of us here who are. I do hope that the OP will find another job soon and have a better residential status in future.

Last edited by Mr. Happy; 17.12.2013 at 14:06. Reason: typos
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