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Old 13.03.2014, 16:50
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Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

Finishing Master student, and interested in orienting career to applied research. I have noticed that most jobs need a PhD, at the same time most jobs want industry experience. PhDs in companies are rare and I have not seen one advertised so far. Entry level "jobs" are 3 month internships. I would like some advice, and your opinion on the best path. Motivation to learn is present, I just don't know where to direct it.
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Old 14.03.2014, 17:45
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

In my opinion long-term you would benefit from a PhD, although competition is tough at all levels in pharma.
Without PhD you might land a job faster (for example in small biotech) because you cost less. However, progression will be slower and it will be very difficult to do a PhD later on.
This is what prompted me to a PhD...if you don't do it when you are young it is hard to get one later in life, although not impossible.
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Old 14.03.2014, 19:11
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

I agree with the advice above. I was D-O-N-E with school and had absolutely no interest/aspirations to stay in academia, so I listened to the advice of those who said "what do you need a PhD for?" and joined the corporate world. I have no regrets, but, in hindsight, getting my PhD (in economics) instead of stopping after my master's degree would have been the best thing to do. This for many reasons, but mainly, it would be an additional, excellent professional credential, and would allow me to do things I cannot do, such as for example expert testimony, etc. There is no way I would go back to school now after X years corporate to pursue that PhD.
So my advice is...go for it!!! You have plenty of time to join corporate later.
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Old 14.03.2014, 19:13
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

Job first. PhD if you hit a ceiling.

You can always do a phd later. Phd doesn't necessarily mean you get a job afterwards.
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Old 15.03.2014, 00:26
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

I am curious, what type of jobs a PhD really makes a difference apart from the academia ? I am an engineer and worked in the aerospace industry and a PhD is pretty much useless. I am currently doing a MBA to get into finance and a PhD is also useless, except in a few quant focused positions.

I am guessing that in Pharma a PhD is valued, correct ? Where else ?
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Old 15.03.2014, 00:28
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

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I am curious, what type of jobs a PhD really makes a difference apart from the academia ? I am an engineer and worked in the aerospace industry and a PhD is pretty much useless. I am currently doing a MBA to get into finance and a PhD is also useless, except in a few quant focused positions.

I am guessing that in Pharma a PhD is valued, correct ? Where else ?
If you want to do most types of scientific research you will hit a glass ceiling without a PhD
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Old 15.03.2014, 01:15
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

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I am curious, what type of jobs a PhD really makes a difference apart from the academia ? I am an engineer and worked in the aerospace industry and a PhD is pretty much useless. I am currently doing a MBA to get into finance and a PhD is also useless, except in a few quant focused positions.

I am guessing that in Pharma a PhD is valued, correct ? Where else ?
In one of the service lines in my field (there are 3), a PhD on the resume that you attach to a client proposal can make the difference between winning a multi-million, multi-year contract or going home empty-handed. It's a matter of credibility, the proverbial "foot in the door". Funny enough, we have very few MBAs in my team even though we are a finance-heavy shop. We have a couple people like you, scientific or engineering background + MBA, very valued, but mostly for their scientific/tech knowledge - clients in industry like to talk to people who understand where they are coming from. Good luck with your studies!
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Old 15.03.2014, 14:39
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

If you want to pursue a career in Biotech/Pharma: yes. Even long experience counts for little these days which is a bit sucky if you come from the era when not so many even did degrees.


TBH in most cases you could most of the jobs advertised with a high school diploma in chemistry, but HR departments are lazy and over the years there has been serious inflation in academia, so much so that they look for a degree for jobs that should bore someone to tears if they actually had one.


C'est la vie.
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Old 15.03.2014, 18:48
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

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In one of the service lines in my field (there are 3), a PhD on the resume that you attach to a client proposal can make the difference between winning a multi-million, multi-year contract or going home empty-handed. It's a matter of credibility, the proverbial "foot in the door". Funny enough, we have very few MBAs in my team even though we are a finance-heavy shop. We have a couple people like you, scientific or engineering background + MBA, very valued, but mostly for their scientific/tech knowledge - clients in industry like to talk to people who understand where they are coming from. Good luck with your studies!
You made a good point. The company I worked for had some "innovation technology research projects" that were funded with loans from government agencies. If I am not mistaken, they were expecting that at least one of the people involved in the project had to be a researcher with "advanced degree", which I believe a PhD had a higher weight than a MSc.

To the OP: you should stop and reflect whether pursuing a PhD is going to give you pleasure, not a degree. By doing so, you will have a great chance to succeeded after that in either academia or the corporate world. And as mentioned by UktoSwiss, it is much easier to go for the PhD when you are young, right after a MSc or even directly from college. The more old you get, the more difficult it is to return to school and, most importantly, position your career again (unless academia is what you want to do).
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Old 15.03.2014, 19:57
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

Do PhD, if you want to pursue a career in research.
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Old 15.03.2014, 21:35
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

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Finishing Master student, and interested in orienting career to applied research. I have noticed that most jobs need a PhD, at the same time most jobs want industry experience. PhDs in companies are rare and I have not seen one advertised so far. Entry level "jobs" are 3 month internships. I would like some advice, and your opinion on the best path. Motivation to learn is present, I just don't know where to direct it.
I got a MSc., have +20 years industry experience and joined a highly demanding job (applied math + technology etc) there were already 3x PhD in my team but I got promoted after a short period while the PhD's haven't. The PhD guys take an edge on topics they worked and knew as part of their PhD only but generally we are at the same level. I guess it matters more what kind of BSc. and MSc. you did, that makes all the difference.
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Old 17.03.2014, 11:40
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

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In my opinion long-term you would benefit from a PhD, although competition is tough at all levels in pharma.
Without PhD you might land a job faster (for example in small biotech) because you cost less. However, progression will be slower and it will be very difficult to do a PhD later on.
This is what prompted me to a PhD...if you don't do it when you are young it is hard to get one later in life, although not impossible.
May I ask in what area did you do your PhD? Was it directly related to the work you are doing now? Was it in pure life science? Was it in engineering oriented sciences?

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If you want to do most types of scientific research you will hit a glass ceiling without a PhD
This is what I'm afraid of, I don't want my progress to be stopped because of a lack of papers. But at the same time, it feels like PhD won't bring so much skills that industry wants. Why not just hire someone coming from an engineering school?

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In one of the service lines in my field (there are 3), a PhD on the resume that you attach to a client proposal can make the difference between winning a multi-million, multi-year contract or going home empty-handed. It's a matter of credibility, the proverbial "foot in the door". Funny enough, we have very few MBAs in my team even though we are a finance-heavy shop. We have a couple people like you, scientific or engineering background + MBA, very valued, but mostly for their scientific/tech knowledge - clients in industry like to talk to people who understand where they are coming from. Good luck with your studies!
Can you clarify what field is this? A PhD in science may be different in other fields, so would the situation be in the corporate world. When you mention people with scientific/engineering background, do they have PhDs or went Msc+ MBA?

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If you want to pursue a career in Biotech/Pharma: yes. Even long experience counts for little these days which is a bit sucky if you come from the era when not so many even did degrees.


TBH in most cases you could most of the jobs advertised with a high school diploma in chemistry, but HR departments are lazy and over the years there has been serious inflation in academia, so much so that they look for a degree for jobs that should bore someone to tears if they actually had one.


C'est la vie.
That's horrible. One of the reasons for PhD is to allow for more interesting jobs and not just repetion.

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You made a good point. The company I worked for had some "innovation technology research projects" that were funded with loans from government agencies. If I am not mistaken, they were expecting that at least one of the people involved in the project had to be a researcher with "advanced degree", which I believe a PhD had a higher weight than a MSc.

To the OP: you should stop and reflect whether pursuing a PhD is going to give you pleasure, not a degree. By doing so, you will have a great chance to succeeded after that in either academia or the corporate world. And as mentioned by UktoSwiss, it is much easier to go for the PhD when you are young, right after a MSc or even directly from college. The more old you get, the more difficult it is to return to school and, most importantly, position your career again (unless academia is what you want to do).
I am definitely putting some time to think about this. It's just not a clear answer. I have people telling me that there are even less jobs available after doing a PhD.




Thank you for all the replies. I am carefully studying each one of them. PhD is not a guarantee for a better job, it supposedly allows you to have a higher ceiling. I'm told though that companies do not take interest in pure life science PhD degrees as much as those with more engineer side. How much this is true I cannot tell. Does anyone have contact with HR who can inform me on the qualifications they look for? If a PhD is highly sought after, how important is the topic of PhD for industry?

My goal is to advance research on the biomedical field. Whether on diseases, drugs, or machines, as long as I can see the purpose that someday my research might help someone have a healthier life. How do I make my profile desirable? How can I train myself for this purpose?
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Old 17.03.2014, 11:58
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

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Thank you for all the replies. I am carefully studying each one of them. PhD is not a guarantee for a better job, it supposedly allows you to have a higher ceiling. I'm told though that companies do not take interest in pure life science PhD degrees as much as those with more engineer side. How much this is true I cannot tell. Does anyone have contact with HR who can inform me on the qualifications they look for? If a PhD is highly sought after, how important is the topic of PhD for industry?

My goal is to advance research on the biomedical field. Whether on diseases, drugs, or machines, as long as I can see the purpose that someday my research might help someone have a healthier life. How do I make my profile desirable? How can I train myself for this purpose?
PhD can raise the ceiling, but think whether you want to preemptively do that? Why not reach the ceiling first?

Also, your questions seem to indicate you have no idea whether the PhD would help you in which case you could waste several years of life for no benefit.

Working first would allow you to understand if you have a limit and whether the PhD would help with that.

Frankly, in some cases a PhD can be a negative for a job. I personally also take this view as I've seen too many PhDs who have a very narrow 'academic' view of the world (which is fine for academia, but not for most businesses) and have no experience of working in the 'real world'.
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Old 17.03.2014, 12:03
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

I think definitely, I got a job while doing my PhD 6 months before I finished!
In Pharma yes...my brother in law who is a chemist and has a masters degree told us that in the US you cannot get a higher position if you do not have a PhD...not so much here in Europe though
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Old 17.03.2014, 12:09
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

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Old 17.03.2014, 12:11
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

Of course it will help. I did my PhD (Biochemistry, Bern) in the expectation I would have a long, fulfilling, and successful career in research.
After that fairy tale had ended in disappointment, it has helped my attain a higher position (and salary) in industry.
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Old 17.03.2014, 12:13
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

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My goal is to advance research on the biomedical field. Whether on diseases, drugs, or machines, as long as I can see the purpose that someday my research might help someone have a healthier life....
I do not have a pharma background, but do have several years in the oil and gas industry (so, also high tech stuff) and worked for a while in an R&D department. My experience has been this: many with an MSc thrive quite well in the Research and Development departments, and at some point do take on management positions. However if what you want to do is more the blue-sky thinking type of research, then you may find that a PhD will be more highly regarded and even be the minimum level required.

All the best in your decision
CM
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Old 17.03.2014, 13:06
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

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I think definitely, I got a job while doing my PhD 6 months before I finished!
In Pharma yes...my brother in law who is a chemist and has a masters degree told us that in the US you cannot get a higher position if you do not have a PhD...not so much here in Europe though
Can I ask what field you are in now and how related your PhD topic was?

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Of course it will help. I did my PhD (Biochemistry, Bern) in the expectation I would have a long, fulfilling, and successful career in research.
After that fairy tale had ended in disappointment, it has helped my attain a higher position (and salary) in industry.
I'm sorry to hear that, but may I ask why is this the case? I'm not sure if you're insinuating that the negative part was because of the PhD studies or some other reason.

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I do not have a pharma background, but do have several years in the oil and gas industry (so, also high tech stuff) and worked for a while in an R&D department. My experience has been this: many with an MSc thrive quite well in the Research and Development departments, and at some point do take on management positions. However if what you want to do is more the blue-sky thinking type of research, then you may find that a PhD will be more highly regarded and even be the minimum level required.

All the best in your decision
CM
Actually I do want to move into the management positions in the long term. They say PhD can help towards this direction too, given that most jobs I see need a PhD degree and those without need to do an "entry level" 3-6 month internship.
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Old 17.03.2014, 21:54
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

Hi there,

One thing that has not been mentioned is the array of skills that you can gain whilst completing a PhD, which may be considered equal to those you'd expect, or even of greater responsibility that you would get in the first year or two in industry. I worked for 3 years after my degree (in a professional capacity) before returning to uni for a masters and currently am doing PhD. As a PhD student you will:
  • Work within a tight budget from day one
  • work independently and with limited guidance for long periods of time. Most professors do not have much time to devote to you, and are best described as absentee.
  • Therefore you make the import decisions on the project, and tailor the direction it will go
  • learn how to effectively manage your time and project manage
  • In some cases will manage others (i.e. supervision of masters students and research assistants)
  • Teamwork is involved in collaborative projects
  • Will be a confident public speaker having had to defend your work publicly at conferences, lab meetings, to your funders, and at a your public defence. You are effectively cross-examined by an expert committee at every stage.
  • You will also be an experienced networker having tried to discuss projects and collaborate with people met at conferences
  • Prioritizes problem solving and critical thinking
  • Will communicate complex ideas verbally and in writing to a wide range of audiences
  • Work under pressure to complete projects/reports to a tight deadline (i.e. finish all work before the money runs up)
  • Will learn multiple technical skills (laboratory equipment/coding/statistical analysis/technical software etc)


Personally I think people who argue that PhDs (at least in the sciences) lack 'real world experience' have an out-dated impression of doctoral studies, and are unaware of the pressures current PhD students work under. I think if you categorically compared the skills you practice/gain as a PhD student to those expected in industry if would look quite favourable. That said, do not do it if your heart is not in it.
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Old 17.03.2014, 22:13
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Re: Is getting a PhD worth it if my end goal is in biotech/pharma industry?

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Can I ask what field you are in now and how related your PhD topic was?

I am a Genetic Epidemiologist, shifted a bit to basic epidemiology which is basically why disease happens so work in developing post marketing studies , the genetic part is just a plus and makes me look smarter :P
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