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Old 31.07.2014, 16:10
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[LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

This is about the entitlement of paid day-off for same-sex registered partnership (compared to marriage).

One of my friends, A (Swiss), recently got registered the same-sex partnership with his partner B. They both took 3 days off to make the celebration.

B told this to his employer (a private company), there was no problem and the 3 days he took were treated as extra paid days off (which is the same as for the marriage).

Then we come to A. In the staff regulation of A's employer (a public service sector of the canton), it writes that, upon marriage, employee gets 3 extra paid days off, and a premium of 1000 CHF. In another section, there is another sentence which reads "registered partnership is treated analogously as marriage".

When A took the 3 days off, his department manager told him that these 3 days would be extra paid days. But after about one month, he got an notification that, after discussion, the management group has decided that the 3 days off and 1000 CHF only apply to marriage and not registered partner. Therefore, the 3 days he took will be deducted from his future normal paid days.

Now A feels really annoyed and he wants to seek for some legal advice. I told him that maybe he should just give up because it does not worth do fight just for 3 days off. But he said it's not a matter of money or vacation but a kind of recognition. Also he thinks that the employer is not doing what is written in the staff regulation.

What do you think about this? Going on or give up...
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Old 31.07.2014, 16:12
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

depends just how much A wants to tarnish his work record
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Old 31.07.2014, 16:15
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

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depends just how much A wants to tarnish his work record
I think that he does not care. He has been working for the canton for 30+ years and is just several years away from his retirement.
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Old 31.07.2014, 16:17
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

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I think that he does not care. He has been working for the canton for 30+ years and is just several years away from his retirement.

well if he's got nothing / very little to lose and doesn't mind all the stress of a legal fight, then go for it

personally I'd let it go, the world has come a long way in a very short time, but still a bit further to go.
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Old 31.07.2014, 16:46
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

I tried to start a FBWM group in my office but it wasn't allowed. Racist or sexist or something.


Fat Bald White Men
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Old 31.07.2014, 16:47
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

1 isn't a group
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Old 31.07.2014, 16:48
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

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1 isn't a group
Forgot the S in the acronym too. Doh!
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Old 31.07.2014, 17:16
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

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Then we come to A. In the staff regulation of A's employer (a public service sector of the canton), it writes that, upon marriage, employee gets 3 extra paid days off, and a premium of 1000 CHF. In another section, there is another sentence which reads "registered partnership is treated analogously as marriage".
It would be interesting to see what the staff regulation specifically mentions. Any online link?

In any event, considering that it is a public service sector, I am sure that there will some form of office, anti-discrimination service, etc. available to take up his cause...
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Old 31.07.2014, 17:21
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

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Now A feels really annoyed and he wants to seek for some legal advice. I told him that maybe he should just give up because it does not worth do fight just for 3 days off. But he said it's not a matter of money or vacation but a kind of recognition. Also he thinks that the employer is not doing what is written in the staff regulation.

What do you think about this? Going on or give up...
I think that if it was already specified in the staff regulation as you state, then your friend is 100% right to be annoyed. He should definitely ask what exactly brought the retardation of the policy. My advice would be to stay professional but firm. If I was in his situation and let it slide, then I would never forgive myself for being such a wimp.
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Old 31.07.2014, 17:33
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

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I think that if it was already specified in the staff regulation as you state, then your friend is 100% right to be annoyed. He should definitely ask what exactly brought the retardation of the policy. My advice would be to stay professional but firm. If I was in his situation and let it slide, then I would never forgive myself for being such a wimp.
Well, it is written in the regulation that "registered partnership is treated analogously as marriage".
But the reply from management group says that "it is written, but not in a very clear way". I do not know what this means. Maybe there is some ambiguity of the word "analogously"? Also, they cite that there was another case of partnership before (so my friend is not the first one inside his employer), and that guy did not benefit from paid day nor the premium (so apparently that guy did not protest at that time).

This makes my friend even more firm to fight as he thinks if no one ever stands out, this will just continue...
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Old 31.07.2014, 17:41
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

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Well, it is written in the regulation that "registered partnership is treated analogously as marriage".
But the reply from management group says that "it is written, but not in a very clear way". I do not know what this means. Maybe there is some ambiguity of the word "analogously"? Also, they cite that there was another case of partnership before (so my friend is not the first one inside his employer), and that guy did not benefit from paid day nor the premium (so apparently that guy did not protest at that time).

This makes my friend even more firm to fight as he thinks if no one ever stands out, this will just continue...
Err... They already had another case in the past and they still did not take any action on improving the text that they themselves admit to be not written in a very clear way? For me, it is quite clear what analogously means in this context. Obviously, they don't give a rat's ass about how they might potentially hurt some of their employees by continuing to have misleading information in the regulations. Does one really need a degree in human resources to realize such things?
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Old 31.07.2014, 17:58
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

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Err... They already had another case in the past and they still did not take any action on improving the text that they themselves admit to be not written in a very clear way? For me, it is quite clear what analogously means in this context. Obviously, they don't give a rat's ass about how they might potentially hurt some of their employees by continuing to have misleading information in the regulations. Does one really need a degree in human resources to realize such things?
I understand the feeling of my friend. Frankly I do not see what they really lose in granting these little things to the rare cases of registered partnership. In addition, when my friend asked for the days, the department manager had said that this will be extra days, and now it has already been actually carried out 1 month ago and now they changed the words. In addition, it's written in the staff regulation (even if it is not very clear then it's not my friend's problem it's them who should make the text clear). My friend told me that, ironically, that sentence of "analogous treatment" was added to their regulation in 2007 just after the law of registered partnership to "show" the equality...
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Old 31.07.2014, 18:00
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

If it was indeed written as you say, there is little room for interpretation and he's entitled to the 3 extra days plus the 1000.-. To me, the word "analogous" couldn't be clearer, but maybe that's some small nuance in the English language I don't get and it's not as clear as I think (am not a native speaker).

If it is an interpretation on his end already, it might be a different story.

Whether it's worth making a big fuss about a couple of days and a few $$ is up to him. No one here can say that. If it's a large company, there's usually enough possibilities to "appeal" such things. But I guess it's a smaller one that has less protection and fewer options.

Personally, I'd be mad and disappointed, but would let it go, but I actually happen to like my job and still have about 30 years to go before I can retire
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Old 31.07.2014, 18:07
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

Which Canton?

It is not Zurich.
http://www2.zhlex.zh.ch/appl/zhlex_r...19.5.99_64.pdf

not Bern:
https://www.sta.be.ch/belex/d/1/153_011_1.html

not Fribourg:
http://bdlf.fr.ch/data/122.70.11/de

Must be Valais as I cannot find a general document.
Not a surprise. Have fun fighting against the CVP/PDC Filz. Also, do not expect any help from Oskar Freysinger.

Last edited by aSwissInTheUS; 31.07.2014 at 18:24.
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Old 31.07.2014, 18:26
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

< lurks>
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Old 31.07.2014, 18:45
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

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Which Canton?

It is not Zurich.
http://www2.zhlex.zh.ch/appl/zhlex_r...19.5.99_64.pdf

not Bern:
https://www.sta.be.ch/belex/d/1/153_011_1.html

not Fribourg:
http://bdlf.fr.ch/data/122.70.11/de

Must be Valais as I cannot find a general document.
Not a surprise. Have fun fighting against the CVP/PDC Filz. Also, do not expect any help from Oskar Freysinger.
Why must it be Valais? It could be any one of the other 22 cantons since the OP hasn't specified in which canton his 'friend' lives and works.
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Old 31.07.2014, 18:48
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

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Why must it be Valais? It could be any one of the other 22 cantons since the OP hasn't specified in which canton his 'friend' lives and works.
It is the gay "friendliest" of all.
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Old 31.07.2014, 18:52
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

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Err... They already had another case in the past and they still did not take any action on improving the text that they themselves admit to be not written in a very clear way? For me, it is quite clear what analogously means in this context. Obviously, they don't give a rat's ass about how they might potentially hurt some of their employees by continuing to have misleading information in the regulations. Does one really need a degree in human resources to realize such things?
If they'd write something along the line of "we only give extra holidays and a payout to marriages between a man and a woman", that would be an open discrimination.
While it might be somehow legal (which I doubt), it would create a major shitstorm (esp. if it was public service/cantonal).
It seems to be a relatively common theme in Switzerland to have a set of rules and a reality that only partly reflects the rules...
(I let myself being talked into relinquishing five days of holiday per year because when my employer merged with another company, their default was 20 days of holiday instead of 25 - this has since been reverted because they probably couldn't hire any decent staff anymore and more of the current staff got kids...including the boss himself)

I'm not embracing that particular line of thinking, but my educated guess is that they think like this:
"Well, the 1000 CHF is for a young, normal couple. They'll conceive a kid soon-ish and will need a stroller, a baby-bed etc.pp. He's gay, so there will be no kids and the money is kind of wasted."
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Old 31.07.2014, 18:55
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

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My friend told me that, ironically, that sentence of "analogous treatment" was added to their regulation in 2007 just after the law of registered partnership to "show" the equality...
Let me guess: They also have a statement in the regulations that women get paid 'in analogy' to men's salaries...

Your friend may also want to diligently check his company pension plan: Is the wording on a widower's pension crystal-clear for same-sex marriages or does he jeopardize future pension entitlements for a surviving spouse by letting them get away with this abysmal line of reasoning on what may be a comparatively smaller issue.
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Old 31.07.2014, 19:13
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Re: [LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case?

Well, I think the pension plan issues are regulated globally in Switzerland rather than individually by each employer. No?

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Let me guess: They also have a statement in the regulations that women get paid 'in analogy' to men's salaries...

Your friend may also want to diligently check his company pension plan: Is the wording on a widower's pension crystal-clear for same-sex marriages or does he jeopardize future pension entitlements for a surviving spouse by letting them get away with this abysmal line of reasoning on what may be a comparatively smaller issue.
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