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-   -   where to look for jobs with no job qualifications (https://www.englishforum.ch/employment/219259-where-look-jobs-no-job-qualifications.html)

Phos 09.10.2014 23:58

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
By the way, do you have Swiss nationality or permission to live in Switzerland already? Do you have a Gemeinde or Heimatort?

Dougal's Breakfast 10.10.2014 00:06

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 2256588)
By the way, do you have Swiss nationality or permission to live in Switzerland already? Do you have a Gemeinde or Heimatort?

Yup:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwi2Swiss (Post 2255662)
I am a Swiss citizen


Chuff 10.10.2014 08:07

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwi2Swiss (Post 2256530)
I am finding it hard to believe that it is so much more expensive. Why then when I went into the shops like Migros, Aldi, Lidl, Ottos was a stunned at the amazing prices that you get over there? I went cloths shopping, and present shopping, I went to restaurants and like I said, I have been looking at flat rentals in the area we're looking at and it seems like there are plenty of places available around the 1200-. mark. Where we live here, the average price for a 2 bedroom place are approx. $300/week and these are often not insulated and heating costs are on top of that.
Anyway, I guess we can debate this back and forth, I had a look around really well while over there and felt it was far cheaper then here in NZ, comparing the same kind of grocery items that I buy over here and clothing too. I am sure there are things that will be more expensive and there are most likely things that I have not taken into consideration, but over all, I am feeling reasonably confident that I have looked into it well.
Am I nervous about finding work for my husband and myself, yes, you have certainly managed to make me very nervous and we will keep looking into this and as much as I am not really wanting to hear the 'bad news' it is important that we know about it, so thank you for making us aware.

Where are you looking to move in Switzerland? Romandie?

Samaire13 10.10.2014 08:23

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 2256638)
where are you looking to move in switzerland? Romandie?

-->

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi2swiss
we will be living in the kanton st.gallen area, where i grew up and most of my family is.

:)

Lexi.M 10.10.2014 08:35

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
I think it has more to do with the fact that experience is more expensive and younger people can be trained to do things exactly the way a company wants it done... I am not sure of course, I am just guessing. Thinking about it, it could also be about health insurance and pensions and all that as well , I don't really know...
As I said before the best of luck whatever you do, I hope everything goes as you want it.

Samaire13 10.10.2014 08:50

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexi.M (Post 2256648)
I think it has more to do with the fact that experience is more expensive and younger people can be trained to do things exactly the way a company wants it done...

It's the above. Not that I approve, but it's reality here. Unfortunately

It's good someone brought up the age thing, that might indeed be an issue. Or let's call it an additional challenge :)

MathNut 10.10.2014 09:23

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Another cost-of-living website: expatistan.com

I put in St. Gallen and Auckland and it reckons the former is 22% more expensive. The nice thing about it is you get a breakdown by category with lots of individual price comparisons. Have a look and see: maybe the items and services that make it more expensive here are things you wouldn't consume anyway.

Chuff 10.10.2014 09:36

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Samaire13 (Post 2256643)
-->

:)

Ahh, missed that. I still feel 1200chf may be a tad optimistic for somewhere decent to live.

Phos 10.10.2014 10:01

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwi2Swiss (Post 2255662)
Oh and I am a Swiss citizen, so at least for me we don't have to worry about any permits etc.

I didn't read every single post. :msnblush: But now that DB has pointed out you are a Swiss Citizen, of course you can come here anytime you want, and your Gemeinde won't let you starve.

You should also contact your embassy. About 10 years ago, Switzerland offered a repatriation program for Swiss living abroad. I believe they offered financial help in some cases, and even some help in transport. I think you can bring in a container of your belongings duty free, and you can even fit your car in a container. So this was back then, you might want to check on what they offer today.

So come on over. You have every right and privilege to. Not everyone does. Settle in, get a job, then post back here to prove the naysayers wrong. :D We might even try to figure out how to kick out a few negative foreigners for you. ;) Vote SVP. :rofl: I'm just joking about voting SVP.

meloncollie 10.10.2014 10:05

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Kiwi2Swiss, the cost of hiring an older worker is simply too expensive for many firms, especially in these days of extreme cost pressure.

The state-mandated protections afforded to an older worker - higher pension contributions, etc - have post-crisis had turned into something of a double-edged sword. The 'early retirement' that is common here is unfortunately often not at the employee's wish; companies are actively trying to shed expensive older workers.

The competition that the EU open labor markets brings is an additional factor - Switzerland is flooded with younger, less expensive folks looking for work. Even more so for jobs not requiring Swiss qualifications.

The attitudes that employers commonly hold towards older workers is one of the reasons I suggested considering self-employment. In a client-supplier relationship you won't face the same institutional barriers.

You can easily charge rates that will account for the cost of your social taxes and insurances; many people in Switzerland who shy away from the hassle of hiring someone as an employee for a one-off or occasional job will not blink at paying a self-employed provider a higher hourly/daily rate, just to be relieved of the paperwork hassle. Even more so when the nature of the work is irregular - few will be willing to enter into an employee/employer relationship for a one day job.

Indeed in some areas, such as household services, an older person has an advantage; many see maturity as synonymous with reliability, something too often missing in the younger folks who would be your compeition.

(Think eldercare services, babysitting, pet care, house sitting, any household related job that would put you in a position of responsibility where the client is depending on you.)

Set yourself up correctly - either as a small business or as self employeed - and clients will be more willing to engage your services.

Phil_MCR 10.10.2014 10:16

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Good luck with the move. As you can see from here, there are challenges, but you seem mentally prepared for that.

I don't know how well you get on with the family here, but maybe that is something to double-check - a few months living together can make for some frayed nerves.

Good luck!

MathNut 10.10.2014 10:38

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 2256680)
Ahh, missed that. I still feel 1200chf may be a tad optimistic for somewhere decent to live.

That's because you're thinking in Zürich terms.
In St. Gallen itself, 1200 for a 2- or 3-room apartment would be reasonable. In the surrounding villages, it's generous. You could rent a 4-room apartment for that much out here where we live.

And let's face it, given that the OP and husband are viewing this as the adventure of a lifetime, I suspect they may not mind cutting a few corners on housing to make it work. They also haven't got large dogs, small kids, L permits or any of the other usual 'handicaps' to finding a place.

Chuff 10.10.2014 10:55

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MathNut (Post 2256745)
That's because you're thinking in Zürich terms.
In St. Gallen itself, 1200 for a 2- or 3-room apartment would be reasonable. In the surrounding villages, it's generous. You could rent a 4-room apartment for that much out here where we live.

And let's face it, given that the OP and husband are viewing this as the adventure of a lifetime, I suspect they may not mind cutting a few corners on housing to make it work. They also haven't got large dogs, small kids, L permits or any of the other usual 'handicaps' to finding a place.

Fair enough, then that part will be ok at least.

SoftBedPlease 10.10.2014 10:56

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Thinking a bit further afield (pun intended, or left field, again pun intended), could the OP's husband start a small orchard here? Perhaps for a small income selling produce......

At least both of you can speak a Swiss language - if even roughly and possibly the "wrong kind" - big hurdle over! (I have a friend who is a Swiss citizen living in Zurich, but she can only speak standard German, not Swiss German!)

It was said somewhere around the traps some time ago that Switzerland sometimes does struggle with finding people in jobs that must be bilingual between the local language and English, i.e. easy enough to find someone who speaks the former, but good English, more difficult. I guess some or most of those might be jobs that need formal qualifications, but......

Phos 10.10.2014 11:05

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Once they come in and register with a Gemeinde, the Gemeinde will become aware of their situation and help with information and processes to help them along. They will be looking after their well-being. They will likely be referred to RAV, and counselled on what they can do. She and her husband will probably be shown a list of temporary jobs on offer, which can lead to permanent jobs if they perform diligently. Their Gemeinde will not want to keep them on the dole. But they will support them if they have to.

meloncollie 10.10.2014 11:23

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SoftBedPlease (Post 2256763)
Thinking a bit further afield (pun intended, or left field, again pun intended), could the OP's husband start a small orchard here? Perhaps for a small income selling produce......

If Kiwi2Swiss's husband is thinking of getting into farming he needs to understand the BGBB. As well as the numerous farming and agricultural regs.

Farming is protected and subsidized. To get a permit to become a 'real' farmer is not impossible for a Swiss citizen who does not come from a farming family, but there are hurdles. Because the canton knows that it will be paying large subsidies*, as most farmers cannot make it on income, there is very carefull scrutiny and an unwillingness to permit the sale of zoned farmland to unproven newcomers. But the red passport will help, as will Kiwi2Swiss' husband's experience.

The cost of farmland varies significantly - but be aware that not only the price but also the sale is regulated by the canton. (You want to purchase land zoned agricultural - non-agricultural land will be an order of magnitude more expensive, and your ability to use the land would be subject to restrictions that make hobby farming difficult. For instance, I live in a residential area, albeit one bordering an orchard. The farmer's trees can grow as tall as nature allows, but since my land is residential I am required to keep my fruit trees pruned to 3 meters. And if a neigbor objects to a tree, chances are I will have to cut it down. Agricultural land zoned for orchards, as opposed to pastureland, is what you need.)

On the other hand, many farmers today have no heirs willing to take up farming life. Perhaps Kiwi2Swiss might find a farmer willing to sell out of the family.

On the third hand, many farmers in our area, knowing they have no children willing to take over, have already optioned their farms to property developers and are counting their gazillions against the day. Developers play the long game for farmland within reach of a metro area, and are willing to wait for a rezoning.

On the fourth hand - look for a farm in the middle of nowhere.

ETA:

Land zoned agricultural but not held under the BGBB might be easier to acquire, more expensive than if held under the BGBB but still significantly less than Bauland. However, again be aware of restrictions. We wanted to plant fruit trees and berry vines on a piece of land currently used as pasture but were told 'nope', as that was deemed incompatible with neighboring farms - trees restricted pastureland access. This was in SZ - again, every canton/area will have a different take on farming regulations. And I should point out we are not Swiss - a huge difference when it comes to dealing with the various Powers That Be holding sway over farmland.

---

(*Gossip 'round the village is that the farmers in our area are subsidized per tree per year, regardless of whether the tree is productive or not. Times 50 trees in an orchard... that's a lot of tax money. So it is understandable why there are so many hoops to jump through. Of course, gossip is... gossip. I couldn't find anything official to support the figure usually bandied about. But the Frauenverein-Schwätzerei has a pretty decent track record, gossip-wise... ;) Not a bad life.)

meloncollie 10.10.2014 12:33

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Thinking more about farm work:

Most cantons have a Bauernverband, a farmer's association. In St Gallen it is:
http://www.bauern-sg.ch

I see that the SG Bauernverband is always looking for Betriebshelferdienst, folks who have farming knowledge who can step in and help other farmers:
http://www.bauern-sg.ch/index.php?id=42

Getting involved in the farmer's association would be a good idea - here is where you might make valuable connections.

Also most cantons have a Landfrau group, an association of farming women. Again in St Gallen:
http://www.baeuerinnen.ch

This would be a good group for Kiwi2Swiss to get involved in.

Here in SZ, for instance, the Bauerninnenverband runs a household service - their members offer all aspects of household services including cleaning, sewing, cooking, gardening, etc. This is a very attractive service, as the Bauerinnenverband takes care of all the administrative work around hiring someone. If you are looking at cleaning or household work, something like this would be a good way to go. I can't see a similar service from the SG Landfrauen group, but nonetheless...

AroundTown 10.10.2014 22:09

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Don't have any job tips - as I'll be new there too, starting next month (from Sydney), but just would be great to share experiences, as I'll be looking for a job too (in the Geneva area).

On the point of Switzerland more expensive than NZ, I doubt it, we ran the actual living cost figures (utilities, rent, petrol, insurance, food, transport etc) in a spreadsheet and Switzerland came out cheaper than AU, if you'd believe it...

Given, the AUD (and NZD) has dropped significantly in September

Kiwi2Swiss 10.10.2014 23:54

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Thank you Meloncollie for those suggestions. We won't be buying any farmland or the such, haven't got the money for it, however my husband would be happy to work on a farm as a labourer. My cousin is a Baeuerin and I know they get subsidized, but man do they have to work hard for that money. Up at 5 am every morning, milking the cows, no break and every evening again and in between they have to make sure everything is working as it should. Making hay is a biggy, especially if you have land on the hillsides, how do it I don't know.
I was helping out while I was on holiday and I always wanted to be a Buuraefrau, but I have been cured, have gotten to used to having time off on weekends etc . :-)

And AroundTown, I totally believe you, living in Aussie and NZ is not cheap, no matter what some statistics say, I would love to see where they get those figures from. Not saying everything is cheaper in Switzerland, but definitely much of it and definitely the things that I tend to shop for. Good luck AroundTown!

Tater Tot 12.10.2014 00:00

Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwi2Swiss (Post 2255170)
...we are now in the process of selling our house and then we hope to move to Ch by the end of January (if the house sells).

Here is our problem, neither of us have got qualifications that count in Ch.

I have spent hours and hours looking on job sites to see what kind of jobs there are available, but they all want qualifications.

I am starting to worry about not finding work when we get there.

I can't believe you're leaving New Zealand! My husband and I are dying to go there. :D

Qualifications, shmalifications. It sounds like you both have skills, which along with confidence and persistence, can be more valuable than the "correct certification". Your husband's been an orchard manager - there are gobs of wineries here...:idea: he could start there, going door to door if he has to...?

Remember that the best jobs are never even posted...they don't have to be. If you're friendly, outgoing, ask everyone you meet, and are a bit unconventional (for Switzerland), I would bet something will pan out for at least one of you.

You might not have jobs lined up and I agree that moving here without any job for either of you is a gamble, but you're both adults, you're home owners who are both currently employed and have raised TWINS, which is amazing, hopefully you have savings to allow you both time to look for work once you get here, and it sounds like you have a free place to stay with family when you get here. If you need a break from family and don't mind the Fribourg area (it's just swell!), you're always welcome at our house. My husband and I have a large 3 bedroom house with 2 extra bedrooms, at least one of which should be available for rent in January. If it's not, we have a comfy air mattress and plenty of space. Just PM me. :D

Good luck with your move and your job hunt!!


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