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Old 18.11.2014, 15:31
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Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

Hi everybody,

I know this is a fairly specific thread, but I am hoping that somebody has some insight, even if it is regarding only part of my query!

I am a Canadian (English-born, therefore British citizen also) veterinary student at university in Australia. I will be graduating in a year's time, and because my partner is Swiss (he lives and works in Switzerland) the goal is for me to go to Switzerland when I finish school. I am hoping to find work as an equine or small animal/equine vet.

My main concern, other than the fact that I will an inexperienced new-graduate, is that my German at this point is quite poor. Realistically, I am not going to have spare time in the next year to be studying German, so it will have to be something I work on once I get to Switzerland. I can make very simple conversation, but it is by no means a comfortable language for me, and I certainly don't think it would give me or my clients much confidence if I had to conduct my consultations etc. in German... In my opinion, the most important part of being a vet is being able to communicate effectively and sincerely with clients and colleagues, so I wouldn't feel that I was being the best vet I could be if I wasn't comfortable and competent with the language being used.

So. My questions or those of you in the vet industry (or who have been in a similar situation with regards to a specialised profession but a lack of German), are:
- Is there even a remote chance of me finding a job as a vet without a solid grasp on the German language? ie. Is the expat community sufficient enough that a clinic could have use for an English-only speaking veterinarian? Even if I was willing to work part time and study German part time until I was proficient?
- Would this probably limit me only to doing small animal work in a major city (ie. where there are tons of expats) and make it unlikely for me to be able to work with horses?
- Would I realistically be better off planning from the start to go to the UK when I graduate, rather than try and fail to set up life in Switzerland?

Any thoughts or insight would be great. My partner and I have been doing long distance for years, and we would obviously love to live in the same country finally, but I have my doubts as to whether or not I could realistically get a job there.

Thanks very much for your opinions!

Jess
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Old 18.11.2014, 15:35
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

1) where will you be going to live?

There's a vet practice where I live and one of the vets there is US, but speaks German. There is a "market" for English-speaking vets, but without the German? TBH I don't know.

2) Do you have to be a vet?

There are plenty of jobs where an English-speaking person who is trained in anatomy/science would be of interest. Here I'm thinking of the various pharma and biotech multinationals, which links back to where you will be based.

Just food for thought. Good luck.
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Old 18.11.2014, 15:39
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

Interesting dilemma. Would it be worth trying to find a research position in one of the Swiss veterinary schools at first, giving you a little more flexibility to improve your German before you head out on your own? It seems the Bern and Zurich veterinary faculties were recently merged into a VetSuisse faculty, with schools/clinics in both cities.
http://www.institutionensuche.unibe....ultaten=vetmed
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Old 18.11.2014, 16:36
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

First, you'd need to get your qualifications recognised.

You are a doctor, dentist, veterinarian, pharmacist or chiropractor and would like to work in Switzerland.
Contact:
Federal Office of Public Health (FOPH)
MEBEKO, CH-3003 Bern
Tel. +41 (0)31 322 94 83,
Web site: www.bag.admin.ch
MEBEKO-Ausbildung@bag.admin.ch

Secondly, do you speak French? If so, maybe you could base yourself in the western part of Switzerland and find work there. Then it wouldn't be so far to meet up with your partner.

Otherwise, going to the UK and working there may be a good alternative. It would give you work experience and you could work on learning German before looking for a job here in the future. the problem I see with not speaking/writing German is that everything you come into contact with workwise will be in this language so if you can't understand it the possibility for error is greater.
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Old 18.11.2014, 18:28
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

Thanks very much for your input so far everyone! (keep it coming!)

In answer to your questions:
- Where I live is entirely flexible! My partner is based in Aargau (working in Spreitenbach) at the moment, but we're both ok with a reasonable commute.
- Yes, I definitely want to be a vet, doing hands-on clinical work
- I am actually interested in research too, but generally speaking, research positions are only open to vets with some level of clinical experience and often post-graduate qualifications too. It was actually suggested to me to approach the universities, as they tend to hire clinicians from all over the world and often default to (or at least all have a good working knowledge of) English. Of course, if you're in a teaching facility though, you'll be involved with the students and of course have German speaking clients, so I think I would still face the same problem, though perhaps in a more forgiving environment than a normal private practice.
- my vet school is accredited by all of the international veterinary bodies, so I will be legally qualified to work anywhere in the world - it would just require applying for a licence to practice in the country of interest.
- sadly my French has deteriorated in the 11+ years since I last had a French lesson in high school... So I think my pitiful German is better than my French these days! Having said that, it could potentially "come back" quicker than I pick up German, however I think in the interest of being able to socialise better with my partner's friends and family, I would like to learn German over another language, at least for now!

I do have a felling that going to the UK to hone my clinical skills while studying German on the side may be the way to go... From what I have seen on forums so far, there certainly is demand for English-speaking vets in Switzerland, so being a native English speaker will serve its purpose in that respect, but I do agree that being able to speak fluently in at least one more language will really be essential for full time work, and of course to interact fully with my Swiss co-workers - it's all about team work in a clinic!
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Old 18.11.2014, 19:01
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

To be blunt, you have to deal with farmers, this is the bread and butter of your profession in Switzelrand, not little pussy cats and dogs from English only speaking patrons.

Farmers will want to converse exclusively in their language explaining complex problems about patients who have the decency not to answer back, apart from the odd moo or baa and never dare to ask questions.

Without a very high level of German, and French if you want to work in French speaking cantons, i really don't see any possibility for you.
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Old 18.11.2014, 19:03
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

Another contact that might be a source of info:

http://www.gstsvs.ch/index.php

The Gesellschaft Schweizer Tierarzt and Tierärztin is a professional organization for veterinarians in Switzerland.
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Old 18.11.2014, 19:20
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

Quote:
To be blunt, you have to deal with farmers, this is the bread and butter of your profession in Switzelrand, not little pussy cats and dogs from English only speaking patrons.
Actually, the big money today is in caring for the little pussy cats and dogs. (Regardless of the owner's language.) Seriously.

Pet owners spend fortunes on their critters - and it is this demand that drives much of the research and academic and technical progress in the profession today.

In fact, there are fewer large animal practices today in Switzerland, simply because the animal population is skewed towards pets.

---

But that said, the vets I go to are all at least tri-lingual. Language skills are very important because your interaction with the animal's owner is critical to a successful outcome. I'll bumble my way through a consultation with my GP in German, but I insist on speaking English with my vet, as since the patient can't talk it is critical that I, my dog's advocate, communicate unambiguously. And judging from hearing my vets switch from German to English to French to Italian I would guess that most pet owners feel the same.

Once I ran into a vet where neither of us were fluent German speakers but we had to stick with that because we had no other language in common - and it almost ended in tragedy. - All because of a misplaced umlaut.

So - work on that German (French and Italian) first!
---

Anyway, best of luck to you.

Last edited by meloncollie; 18.11.2014 at 19:59.
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Old 18.11.2014, 19:34
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

Was zum Kuckkuck Herr Herriot? Daisy hat Brustdrüsenentzundung!

See - dead easy.

Quote:
To be blunt, you have to deal with farmers, this is the bread and butter of your profession in Switzelrand, not little pussy cats and dogs from English only speaking patrons.

Farmers will want to converse exclusively in their language explaining complex problems about patients who have the decency not to answer back, apart from the odd moo or baa and never dare to ask questions.

Without a very high level of German, and French if you want to work in French speaking cantons, i really don't see any possibility for you.
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Old 18.11.2014, 20:04
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

I think the problem with approaching the unis might be that veterinary medicine is a restricted course here, open only to students who are nationals of Switzerland and Lichtenstein or who have lived in Switzerland for at least 5 years. Whether that would carry over into the research/post graduate side I don't know. You can but ask and see, you might be lucky and get something.

If you based yourself here in Fribourg canton, particuarly around the city itself then you have both languages being used all the time. Fribourg is a bi-lingual canton so you'll hear some people using German and others using French. It might help refresh your French while you can also study German. Also as a horse lover you'd not be far from Avenches where IENA (National Equestrian Institute) and HARAS (Swiss National Stud) are both based.

http://www.avenches.ch/en/cultureetl...e/ienaavenches

http://www.avenches.ch/en/page.cfm/c.../harasnational
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Old 18.11.2014, 20:26
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

I think you need to look for something in The UK or Ireland first. Then work on your language. Could your partner not move to the UK for a while?
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Old 19.11.2014, 01:52
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

I do agree with Meloncollie that it is the small animal work that is rapidly becoming the "bread and butter" of veterinary work. Without getting into it really, for my generation there is in motion a shift away from "mixed" practice these days, to clinics and indeed vets focusing their work exclusively on small animals, or equine, or large/production animals.

My partner's family actually run a farm (all organic dairy, grains, fruit and produce) so I very familiar with the lack of English in the farming community particularly - especially the older generations! I've also had the opportunity to meet their vets (one sees the cows, another sees their horses) and tag along with them on occasion.

And as I mentioned before, to me effective communication is the keystone to being a good vet... So I do agree with everyone's sentiments on my needing to have (at least!) good German before working in Switzerland! Hence this forum has been very useful. I always see posts about people seeking a good English speaking vet so I was curious to know if any of those english speaking vets were expats with German-in-progress like me!

Post-graduate programs are generally open to any vets with adequate qualifications and a few years' experience. Off the top of my head, some of the residents at my uni are from America, Ireland, and Germany, and there is currently a small animal internship at the University of Bern advertised (in English) on a few international job-seeking sites.

My partner is open to moving anywhere really, but he does love his job and loves living in Switzerland, so I don't want to rip him away from it if I can avoid it! He tried coming out here to Australia after he graduated but couldn't get sponsored (even as an engineer!) so he has tried making big sacrifices for me, and I would like to at least try to do the same. But yes, if it came down to it he would move to the UK or to Canada if that's what it took for me to be able to work! I'd at least like to give Switzerland a chance - if it will give me a chance!

Thanks again for all of your thoughts and useful links - I will explore those links and continue doing some detective work. This all gives me a lot of food for thought, and I am glad that I've still got a year left to mull everything over!
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Old 19.11.2014, 08:57
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

If you and your partner did move to the Aarau area, at least you would be within a spit of both Bern and Zurich. The problem with working in the UK to "improve your German" is that it won't, not to any paractical extent anyway. You'd learn high German, but that would be little use in dealing with farmers who speak only their local dialect and can barely converse in high German. I'm not saying you have to learn to speak dialect, but you certainly need to be able to understand it.

Last edited by PaddyG; 19.11.2014 at 10:21.
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Old 19.11.2014, 15:05
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

Yes, the dialects are a whole other kettle of fish!!

Granted I don't plan on working with farm animals, I would hope that High German would suffice for the most part - it would have to, at least initially.
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Old 19.11.2014, 15:51
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

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Yes, the dialects are a whole other kettle of fish!!

Granted I don't plan on working with farm animals, I would hope that High German would suffice for the most part - it would have to, at least initially.
It seems to me the challenge will be getting your certifications recognized in Switzerland.

The language barrier, despite Today Only's token effort at force-integrating all comers, is almost a complete non-issue, and here is why I think so.

Simply take on english speaking apprentices. In the US they're called Vet technicians, and are licensed separately, but they are sometimes the stepping stone onto vet practice for some. In Switzerland you would likely find a few types, those pursuing animal care work as a trade [14 to 18yrs, I think], those in university [same age, better test scores], and all sorts in between.

And so, you trounce about the country side with your trusty Swizzler sidekick. They gain huge international perspective on vet medicine, exposure to english, and of course, exposure to practicing in country. You would also learn vet-specific Schwizzer-Deutch most ricky-tick. win-win-win [don't tell Today Only] []

So, Sprache seems a non issue. All you need is to prove to CH that you are a good vet. This will take a few years, but your Swiss-hubs can speed this up by helping get your applications in order.

gross speculation time: It's been said in this forum that the training and education of medical doctors here is not, shall we say, as onerous as it is in the US. I am not sure about Vet school in Australia, but in the US, it is more competitive than med school, and requires as much education, with perhaps slightly less residency requirements.

It's a little embarrasing to consider that such professionals need to further prove their worth, ranked against what I assume are lesser barriers to entry in this country. [that said, I know nothing about the training of veterinarians in Switzlerand {though I expect to learn much, heretofore!}]

Good luck!
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Old 19.11.2014, 19:29
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

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Yes, the dialects are a whole other kettle of fish!!

Granted I don't plan on working with farm animals, I would hope that High German would suffice for the most part - it would have to, at least initially.
There are about 25% of foreigners in Switzerland of which maybe 10% are speaking English as their first language.

25% of 8mio = 2mio, 10% 2 mio = 200'000 people

You client base will be far too small to survive of furry wonders, you'll need to work extensively with local population (German/French or Italian speaking people) in order to survive and pay the costs of a proper surgery.
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Old 19.11.2014, 21:28
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

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There are about 25% of foreigners in Switzerland of which maybe 10% are speaking English as their first language.

25% of 8mio = 2mio, 10% 2 mio = 200'000 people

You client base will be far too small to survive of furry wonders, you'll need to work extensively with local population (German/French or Italian speaking people) in order to survive and pay the costs of a proper surgery.
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The language barrier, despite Today Only's token effort at force-integrating all comers, is almost a complete non-issue, and here is why I think so.

Simply take on english speaking apprentices. In the US they're called Vet technicians, and are licensed separately, but they are sometimes the stepping stone onto vet practice for some. In Switzerland you would likely find a few types, those pursuing animal care work as a trade [14 to 18yrs, I think], those in university [same age, better test scores], and all sorts in between.
I sincerely believe the smartest veterinary assistants will come to you, Jess, no matter their title. Language is not the big deal. At most you would have to re-orient yourself with regional agricultural factors, and that's only if you go large animal.

The big problem is identified by Medea: Getting your pedigree confirmed, accepted, stamped.
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Old 20.11.2014, 09:11
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

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The big problem is identified by Medea: Getting your pedigree confirmed, accepted, stamped.

That's the easiest bit ! Take the papers to the relevant authorities and the answer will be forthcomming

The difficult bit is the language barrier, you have to rely on the owner of the patient telling the symptons to make your diagnostic, not an easy task, compounded by the problem the patient doesn't speak at all.

Your choice but without language i think it maybe not really feasible.

Good luck anyway.
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Old 20.11.2014, 10:22
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

Was just at the Tierspital, which reminded me:

In my (all too frequent) visits to the Tierspital (Uni ZH) over the years I have seen several young vets who gained their degrees outside Switzerland who were doing something similar to an internship or residency here. I met one such young vet some years ago who hardly had any German - although he was learning. (We did the consult in English.) IIRC he was a doing a specialty residency or internship or post-doc and was sent to the Tierspital via his university.

Does your university offer any kind of international exchange? Or, do any of your professors have connections here? (If you look at the profiles of the vets at the Tierspital, you'll see that many of them studied/interned post-degree in the US, for instance.)

By the time you graduate, do you think your German would be at a point where you could do an internship?
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Old 20.11.2014, 11:59
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Re: Finding work as a foreign veterinarian - what are the realities?

as English and German native speaker but living in CH all my life, as well as a horse owner, I must say that all my 'horse knowledge' is in German. And even then I have to have the vet explain some terms or look them up. I believe this will be the problem for most owners, unless you really have an expat only clinic, which would be hard to come by as expats live all over the place
I think meloncollies idea of an internship at the tierspital would be great, then you also learn all the terms in german.
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