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Old 01.03.2016, 00:11
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

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It works the other way as well, if you get fired and become sick, the company
have to wait to terminate the contract, the notice period remains the same or stays intact and will not be touched by that matter.
Limit is 6 months though so people can't take the piss too much.
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Old 04.03.2016, 17:25
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

Hi all,

Sorry to double post, but everyone latched onto my specific situation, rather than the question itself...


"Can anyone explain the logic behind the whole "sickness extends the notice period" concept?

What's the point of this law?"

Thanks in advance!
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  #23  
Old 05.03.2016, 00:11
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

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Hi all,

Sorry to double post, but everyone latched onto my specific situation, rather than the question itself...


"Can anyone explain the logic behind the whole "sickness extends the notice period" concept?

What's the point of this law?"

Thanks in advance!
Simple: workers' protection. The assumption is that in case of sickness, the worker is not fit enough to look for another job, hence it would be unfair to stick to the notice period and make the search for a new job more difficult for him.

Granted, in many cases, the soon-to-be-former employee (incorrectly) assumes he will just never have to show up again and work with the people who terminated the contract with him, or he may fake a sickness altogether (seen this many times, plus it's often happily recommended in this forum too) for either the same reason or, being well aware that the notice period will be automatically extended, to simply buy time to look for a job.
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Old 06.03.2016, 20:43
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

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Simple: workers' protection. The assumption is that in case of sickness, the worker is not fit enough to look for another job, hence it would be unfair to stick to the notice period and make the search for a new job more difficult for him.

Granted, in many cases, the soon-to-be-former employee (incorrectly) assumes he will just never have to show up again and work with the people who terminated the contract with him, or he may fake a sickness altogether (seen this many times, plus it's often happily recommended in this forum too) for either the same reason or, being well aware that the notice period will be automatically extended, to simply buy time to look for a job.

Ok, I appreciate the effort, but unfortunately that makes no sense at all...

Assuming they don't already have something lined up, having to work longer reduces the employees chances of finding a new job, as once the Notice period is over they get paid by the RAV to look for work while not being distracted by going to work...

If they do have something else lined up, extending the notice period simply jeopardizes said job, increasing the chance of subsequent unemployment...
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Old 06.03.2016, 21:10
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

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Ok, I appreciate the effort, but unfortunately that makes no sense at all...
There are three dimensions why the notice period is extended in case of illness:

* the employee retains the opportunity to search for a new employer (he is assumed to be too ill to continue searching while being ill)
* the employee retains the previous payment schedule, not at the RAV rate of 70%/80%
* RAV does not get dumped these employees - they stay with the employer
* the employer can assure that any handover is not cut short by somebody's illness

It's pretty much balanced, from my point of view.

If an employee or employer both agree to split up outside of notice periods, they are perfectly enabled to do so. Just make a dissolution contract "as of tomorrow that pesky employment is gone, over, out, oh-my-god-thank-you" and that's it. It just takes two. The existing employee contract simply serves as a starting point for all of that.

Typically though, the employer wants the employee gone (useless twat!), and the employee does not want to leave (err, where to next?!). Or the other way around (rats, there goes my tacit knowledge - hooray, next career step with all the old customers!).

And RAV does not want either of them on their doorstep, thus penalizes the employee in case of voluntary termination.
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Old 06.03.2016, 21:20
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

So if I'm two weeks off the end of my notice period, the employer has already found a replacement and I have the bad luck to be off sick for a week, the employer would be out of pocket for a month's salary? Is that adding an extra month thing true all the time? What would be the obligations of the employee if now there is no work for them and they're employed to do a very specific job?
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Old 06.03.2016, 21:37
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

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So if I'm two weeks off the end of my notice period, the employer has already found a replacement and I have the bad luck to be off sick for a week, the employer would be out of pocket for a month's salary? Is that adding an extra month thing true all the time? What would be the obligations of the employee if now there is no work for them and they're employed to do a very specific job?
They drink coffee , surf the web & get a months salary, so like most EF members
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Old 06.03.2016, 21:38
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

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So if I'm two weeks off the end of my notice period, the employer has already found a replacement and I have the bad luck to be off sick for a week, the employer would be out of pocket for a month's salary?
Yes - sick for a day, even.

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Is that adding an extra month thing true all the time?
Well, it's going up, of course, with ongoing illness - five weeks ill = two months extension and so on. So if an employee falls ill long-term, the employer is stuck with the employee.

It seems as if this is being abused more and more often, sometimes to take some time off, sometimes to retaliate, sometimes out of spite, whatever.

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What would be the obligations of the employee if now there is no work for them and they're employed to do a very specific job?
The employee always must make his/her services available to the employer. Whether the employer decides to (or, as you write, is able to) make use of these services is not a problem that should bother the employee.
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  #29  
Old 06.03.2016, 21:40
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

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So if I'm two weeks off the end of my notice period, the employer has already found a replacement and I have the bad luck to be off sick for a week, the employer would be out of pocket for a month's salary? Is that adding an extra month thing true all the time? What would be the obligations of the employee if now there is no work for them and they're employed to do a very specific job?
It adds to the cost of staff turnover. But if the sick leave is beyond a certain limit, then it becomes a matter of insurance rather than directly from the employer's pocket.

It's also tied in with the fact that an employment contract is very difficult to terminate if the employee is on sick leave...
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Old 07.03.2016, 00:12
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

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Ok, I appreciate the effort, but unfortunately that makes no sense at all...
It's not an effort. That IS the actual main reason, whether you believe it or not.

An employee may well choose to decline the extension and leave as originally agreed, e.g. if he has lined up another job already.


And no, it doesn't apply in all cases, only if the company has terminated the contract, but not if the employee has quit him/herself.

Technically, x days of illness will extend the notice period by the same amount of days (yes, also if it's just one), but because work contracts can only be terminated by the end of any given month, the extension is accordingly.

And also: no, the employer is not "stuck with the employee" forever (lovely way of saying that, given we're assuming people are actually off for a legitimate reason and that may well include more than a little cold). The maximum extension of the notice period in the first year of employment is 30 days, 90 days in the second to fifth and 180 days thereafter. These are the legal minimums, companies may choose to increase these by policy. The continuation of payment, however, is yet another matter. These two aspects are NOT the same.
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Old 07.03.2016, 00:43
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

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It adds to the cost of staff turnover. But if the sick leave is beyond a certain limit, then it becomes a matter of insurance rather than directly from the employer's pocket.

It's also tied in with the fact that an employment contract is very difficult to terminate if the employee is on sick leave...

Watch out. I do have an friend who has signed a insurance for his employees but in one case he did not want to accept the restriction period. After the court ruling and the appeal 6 months later he had to pay 3 months of 80% wage but his insurance has paid him nothing because he did not inform them about this case latest 33 days later.
So it is good not to fight with the employee in case they are sick or at least inform the insurance in time and later to fight with them a legal battle.
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  #32  
Old 07.03.2016, 00:48
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

Just adding:

https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...dex.html#a336c

and

https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...dex.html#a336c
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  #33  
Old 07.03.2016, 18:53
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

I haven't had time to check the above links, but is it correct about work contracts finishing only at the end of the month? I have a number of colleagues who started mid-month and their contract end date is also mid-month. Does it not apply for time-limited contracts?
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Old 07.03.2016, 19:13
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

Ok in the link above it says:

Where a specific end-point, such as the end of a month or working week, has been set for termination of the employment relationship and such end-point does not coincide with the expiry of the resumed notice period, the latter is extended until the next applicable end-point.


Words like "such as" are not very precise. Does it mean if the contract says "contract will end at the end of the month following the month in which notice was received" then it applies, but if the contract says "two months notice" then it doesn't? It's not so clear there.
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Old 07.03.2016, 21:16
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

It's really not that difficult. In Switzerland, notice periods are always by the end of the month. Well let's say they should be anyway.

So your contract is terminated by the employer on let's say 15 February, with three months notice period, i.e. by 31 May. You fall sick with the flu on March 15 and are out for 10 days. The notice period is extended to 10 June. But because work contracts can only be terminated by the end of a month, the new end date is 30 June.

In the unlikely case someone has some strange notice period of three months that disregards the "end of the month rule", and that contract is terminated on February 15 by May 15, but you then fall sick with the flu on March 15 and are out for 10 days, the new end date of the contract is May 25.
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Old 07.03.2016, 21:19
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

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In the unlikely case someone has some strange notice period of three months that disregards the "end of the month rule",

But you say the this can never happen, so how would one know if they have the end of the month rule or not?
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Old 07.03.2016, 22:02
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

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But you say the this can never happen, so how would one know if they have the end of the month rule or not?
That is defined by law and unless explicitly stated otherwise in the contract, the notice period is always by the end of the month. Even if it's explicitly stated otherwise, I'm not fully positive it would hold.
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  #38  
Old 08.03.2016, 11:11
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

A work contract of unlimited duration can only be canceled per the end of a calendar month (art. 335c).

Art. 336c.a3 says that illness during the notice period automatically extends the notice period by the respective number of calendar days. Due to 335c this means (under standard conditions) one day of illness extends the notice period by one calendar month. So depending on the calendar month it can take up to 31 additional days of illness to extend the notice by an additional month.

However an awful lot concerning the work contract can be overridden by "Absprache", i.e. by agreement. For instance in case of a standard cancellation the two parties might agree post-illness that the single ill day doesn't extend the notice period. Or they might have agreed that the contract ends february 23, whereby illness has no effect on the notice period. Or they might have agreed that notice period is one month instead of three but that one month earns double pay. Etc.

Hence it is possible for a previously unlimited work contract to end at virtually any given day, but that's a rare exception.
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Old 29.03.2016, 17:34
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

I am looking to hire someone in consulting and would like to understand my risk as an employee is normally revenue for us.


reading through the threads I understand that both sides are equally protected by law in case of sickness. If the employee has a new contract with another employer it would be annoying for the employee and vice versa for the employer. I also understand that it is irrelevant who gave notice, employer or employee.


what happens if the notice is given 2,5 months before the termination date and the employee falls ill for 2 days. Assuming termination end of the month and notice period agreed of 2 months. Would these 2 days prolong the termination date with a month or would it be deducted from the half month that the notice was given early?
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Old 29.03.2016, 17:51
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Re: Signed off sick during Notice Period

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I am looking to hire someone in consulting and would like to understand my risk as an employee is normally revenue for us.


reading through the threads I understand that both sides are equally protected by law in case of sickness. If the employee has a new contract with another employer it would be annoying for the employee and vice versa for the employer. I also understand that it is irrelevant who gave notice, employer or employee.


what happens if the notice is given 2,5 months before the termination date and the employee falls ill for 2 days. Assuming termination end of the month and notice period agreed of 2 months. Would these 2 days prolong the termination date with a month or would it be deducted from the half month that the notice was given early?
An extra month, giving notice early has no effect.
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