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Old 11.12.2014, 16:21
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Can I quit RAV?

Hey everyone!

Today I had my second appointment in the RAV, but still haven't got any useful help or money, for what it would be worth to accomplish their wishes and tolerate how they sometimes treat people.
In January I also have to take part on a CV writing training, which I don't think would be as useful as the time I could spend with searching for example.

My question is if I can quit their game and how? If yes, I suppose I have to pay the money back, so it would be better to quit before I have to pay back the costs of this fantastic course as well. I am also thinking about becoming a freelancer. Is there a way to change my status from job seeker to business starter and get the maximal 4 month time from them?

Thanks for your help and for sharing your experiences!
Eszter
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Old 11.12.2014, 16:26
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Re: Can I quit RAV?

The training seems to be a standard one in some Kantons. Why not bite your teeth together and do it? And use the rest of the time to find a job or start your business.

I´d imagine that they would cut your payment for not participating. If you can quit and go for the business starter "package" I have no idea. Maybe just give them a call and ask?
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Old 11.12.2014, 16:26
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Re: Can I quit RAV?

You can quit at any time.

However, you won't get any more money.

Tom
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Old 11.12.2014, 16:31
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Re: Can I quit RAV?

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Hey everyone!

Today I had my second appointment in the RAV, but still haven't got any useful help or money...
But you WILL get this money, isn't it?
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Old 11.12.2014, 16:36
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Re: Can I quit RAV?

Yes, put in a business plan to the Swiss authorities and also show you have sufficient finances to keep you going while the business gets up and running.

https://www.ch.ch/en/becoming-self-employed/

http://www.kmu.admin.ch/kmu-gruenden...x.html?lang=en
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Old 11.12.2014, 16:44
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Re: Can I quit RAV?

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Yes, put in a business plan to the Swiss authorities...
Business plan for Swiss authorities?! What are you smoking? I am self employed since 97. Regarding Swiss authorities you tell them at a certain time you are self employed or they will figure it out themselves.
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Old 11.12.2014, 16:45
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Re: Can I quit RAV?

Well, if he continues to want money from the RAV, shouldn´t he inform them that he starts his own business?
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Old 11.12.2014, 16:55
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Re: Can I quit RAV?

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Well, if he continues to want money from the RAV, shouldn´t he inform them that he starts his own business?
No. Because the intention to start your own business means absolutely nothing. As soon as he/she makes actually some money with it's own business it's something different of course.

To get the status of being self employed you either prove the SVA that you are indeed running your own business. Or you just declare your income and they will accept it.
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Old 11.12.2014, 16:58
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Re: Can I quit RAV?

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Business plan for Swiss authorities?! What are you smoking? I am self employed since 97. Regarding Swiss authorities you tell them at a certain time you are self employed or they will figure it out themselves.
Yes, long before the latest regulations came out.

"At registration in Switzerland though, the planned self-employed activity needs to be proven. Proof can be provided for example with a valid VAT number, an entry into the professional register, the registration at the social insurance as self-employed entrepreneur, a business plan, accounting figures or the entry in the Commercial Register. For more information, contact the cantonal migration offices."

If he quits RAV then the authorities are going to want to know he can support himself and the business. In these anti-immigration days I'd make sure they agree to my plan before putting it into action.
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Old 11.12.2014, 17:38
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Re: Can I quit RAV?

You can even be part time occasionally self employed whilst on RAV, so if you get some work you can do it, or even a percentage self employed & a percentage unemployed. They are very flexible if you actually do some work as I discovered.
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Old 11.12.2014, 17:40
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Re: Can I quit RAV?

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Business plan for Swiss authorities?! What are you smoking? I am self employed since 97. Regarding Swiss authorities you tell them at a certain time you are self employed or they will figure it out themselves.
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No. Because the intention to start your own business means absolutely nothing. As soon as he/she makes actually some money with it's own business it's something different of course.

To get the status of being self employed you either prove the SVA that you are indeed running your own business. Or you just declare your income and they will accept it.
Does this mean that you start your business, have some clients, business transactions and when afterwards you go to SVA to register yourself?

I thought first you register your business and inform RAV before you actually start your business.
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Old 11.12.2014, 17:45
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Yes, long before the latest regulations came out.

If he quits RAV then the authorities are going to want to know he can support himself and the business. In these anti-immigration days I'd make sure they agree to my plan before putting it into action.
Uh, no... RAV is an insurance. If he/she says I don't want it anymore because I am self employed "authorities" won't care. Why should they?

And everybody can create a business plan within 5 minutes or register a new company at the Handelsregister for 300 bucks. Means absolutely nothing.

If you get RAV money and make some additional money you just tell them.

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Does this mean that you start your business, have some clients, business transactions and when afterwards you go to SVA to register yourself?

I thought first you register your business and inform RAV before you actually start your business.
SVA would like to know if you are self employed within half a year or so. You can prove that if you deliver them some bills and so on. (Send me a PM if you want to know what they actually demand.) Or they realize it anyway because they got your tax declaration.

Regarding RAV they just want to know if you actually make some additional money and next they will deduct it from the money you get from RAV.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 11.12.2014 at 18:11. Reason: merging successive posts
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Old 11.12.2014, 23:39
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Re: Can I quit RAV?

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Well, if he continues to want money from the RAV, shouldn´t he inform them that he starts his own business?
She.
OP is a lady, so let's refer to her accordingly.
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Old 12.12.2014, 06:39
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Re: Can I quit RAV?

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Uh, no... RAV is an insurance. If he/she says I don't want it anymore because I am self employed "authorities" won't care. Why should they?
Because that's how social insurances work in pretty much all European countries outside planet Switzerland: unemployment insurance only applies to employees. At the moment you are your own boss will you get kicked out and neither have to pay nor have the right to get the money.

It's a totally normal and valid question for a foreigner coming to CH and thinking of starting a company.
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Old 12.12.2014, 08:32
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Re: Can I quit RAV?

Not exactly, Teverus:
While employed he gained a certain entitlement by paying for jobless insurance. Even if he becomes self-employed that entitlement remains intact(link in german) for some time (the Rahmenfrist gets stretched so to say, it seems for up to two years).

So if it turns out he's unsuccessful he'll be able to fall back for some time - the RAV will know about the details. ALV doesn't last (pay) for the full duration of the Rahmenfrist so that may even not turn out into a loss at all, subject to details of course.
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Old 12.12.2014, 08:40
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Re: Can I quit RAV?

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Not exactly, Teverus:
While employed he gained a certain entitlement by paying for jobless insurance. Even if he becomes self-employed that entitlement remains intact(link in german) for some time (the Rahmenfrist gets stretched so to say, it seems for up to two years).

So if it turns out he's unsuccessful he'll be able to fall back for some time - the RAV will know about the details. ALV doesn't last (pay) for the full duration of the Rahmenfrist so that may even not turn out into a loss at all, subject to details of course.
I know. I said IN OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES it works differently. That's why the OP has a very valid question and I find it strange why everyone pretends that the RAV is "naturally" the way it is in Switzerland. In most countries are self employed completely outside of the unemployment insurance as they arguably have the possibility to potentially abuse an social insurance more than an average employee - as they could technically control if they'd want to go insolvent... and similar. The Swiss system added a lot of detailed checks and requirements into the RAV instead to cover for this possibility.
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Old 12.12.2014, 08:46
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Re: Can I quit RAV?

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I suppose I have to pay the money back, so it would be better to quit before I have to pay back the costs of this fantastic course as well.
There is nothing to pay back.

Tom
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Old 13.12.2014, 15:18
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Re: Can I quit RAV?

You should do the course, even if it doesn't interest you. I did one and actually enjoyed it. It got me out of the house and you meet other people who are in the same situation. We had quite a laugh.

If you refuse to do it, they may take money off the payments.
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