Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22.04.2008, 09:24
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 124
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Jmavatar has no particular reputation at present
My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

Hallo.

Today expire my 3 month probatory period in a big company, hier in Switzerland.

They are quite happy with me, because they want to continue employing me.

The thing is that I signed a undefined contract(normal one) with 3 probatory month at the beginning. And now, I don't know if today, in the meeting with my boss, I need to talk about the contract points(responsibilities, salary, bonus, etc.)

I am 26 y.o. Bachelor engineer with one year experience. And I am earning 87k chf. living in Zurich. And I realized that people in the same circunstances as me, are earning 5 to 10% more.(is not a lot, but, you know...)

The question is : Should I renegotiate my contract after the probatory period, or the contract remains as it was signed at the beginning?

Thanks a lot for helping a newbie

Thanks a lot
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22.04.2008, 09:32
dawiz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,112
Groaned at 96 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,050 Times in 1,191 Posts
dawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

Quote:
View Post
I am 26 y.o. Bachelor engineer with one year experience. And I am earning 87k chf. living in Zurich. And I realized that people in the same circunstances as me, are earning 5 to 10% more.(is not a lot, but, you know...)
87k @ 26 years without a master's degree and you're complaining? Seriously - you're making very good to excellent money. I got 90k when I started working after University but I was two years older than you're now and I have a master's.
Perhaps some of your colleagues were even luckier but you're making much more than average.

Also, just because your probation period is over doesn't mean your contract is up for discussion. I'd do some further training this year and ask your boss for a raise next year.

peter
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22.04.2008, 09:34
boyInterrupted's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 68
Groaned at 3 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
boyInterrupted has no particular reputation at present
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

If you are good at what you do, even with just 1 year of experience, you needn't worry much and could talk about re-negotiating your contract.

But, if you're still learning the ropes, I'd say don't rock the boat just yet!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22.04.2008, 09:48
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 48
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
maxje79 has no particular reputation at present
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

Quote:
View Post
87k @ 26 years without a master's degree and you're complaining? Seriously - you're making very good to excellent money. I got 90k when I started working
how does it related to Salary poll then? Majority of people seem to earn much more...
I thought average salaries were pretty high in Swiss...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22.04.2008, 09:57
chiguy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 511
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 322 Times in 190 Posts
chiguy has an excellent reputationchiguy has an excellent reputationchiguy has an excellent reputationchiguy has an excellent reputation
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

Quote:
View Post
how does it related to Salary poll then? Majority of people seem to earn much more...
I thought average salaries were pretty high in Swiss...
That's comparing apples to oranges, maxje79. If the poll only considered engineers with Bachelor degrees, then it might be applicable...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 22.04.2008, 09:57
szhjcn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,765
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 381 Times in 302 Posts
szhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of many
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

Yes but some of us have over 20 years of experience in Banking and other fields.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 22.04.2008, 09:58
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pully
Posts: 426
Groaned at 50 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 184 Times in 106 Posts
muffin is considered a nuisancemuffin is considered a nuisancemuffin is considered a nuisance
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

Quote:
View Post
Hallo.

Today expire my 3 month probatory period in a big company, hier in Switzerland.

They are quite happy with me, because they want to continue employing me.

The thing is that I signed a undefined contract(normal one) with 3 probatory month at the beginning. And now, I don't know if today, in the meeting with my boss, I need to talk about the contract points(responsibilities, salary, bonus, etc.)

I am 26 y.o. Bachelor engineer with one year experience. And I am earning 87k chf. living in Zurich. And I realized that people in the same circunstances as me, are earning 5 to 10% more.(is not a lot, but, you know...)

The question is : Should I renegotiate my contract after the probatory period, or the contract remains as it was signed at the beginning?

Thanks a lot for helping a newbie

Thanks a lot
I don't have much idea on the salary level of you but I would say, if you want more, just ask. It never hurts to ask, at least you might get a chance for a review. How to approach this to your boss is more important --unless you got the figures from a very reputable and recognizable source, you might not want to mention it to him.

Before any action, you could have a casual chat with people around to see if there's a norm on salary review after probation. Big company normally has well-defined system on compensation package. I think it's better to take company practice as a selling point. Good Luck to you.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 22.04.2008, 09:59
Nathu's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,521
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
Nathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

There might be a misunderstanding what a probatory period is. Maybe it isn't more than the legally allowed shorter notice period. Has your employer clearly stated that he wants to negotiate bonus and competences now? As far as I can tell he didn't mention that he wants a new contract now.

And the salary poll is of limited significance to say the least.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 22.04.2008, 10:00
dawiz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,112
Groaned at 96 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,050 Times in 1,191 Posts
dawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

Quote:
View Post
how does it related to Salary poll then? Majority of people seem to earn much more...
I thought average salaries were pretty high in Swiss...
Depends a bit where you work and what you do. The average salary for IT is 80k in Switzerland (http://www.itreseller.ch/news/nw_single.cfm?NW_id=27040). Consultants make a bit more on average.

General average is 77'000 for men and (unfairly) only 62'000 for women.

So you're way above average. Also, you're very young and unfortunately Bachelor's don't count as much here as elsewhere since over 90% of college graduates get a Master's.

I can only speculate why the average salary of the typical EF member is so much higher. I'd say most people here are considerably older, have much more experience, are highly specialized and were hired for positions that only they could fill.

peter
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 22.04.2008, 10:03
NicM's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: zurich
Posts: 489
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 191 Times in 115 Posts
NicM has a reputation beyond reputeNicM has a reputation beyond reputeNicM has a reputation beyond reputeNicM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

Jmavatar,

honestly, for 26 you're doing quite well in the salary stakes.

re: the people earning a little more than you.. are they in the same company? might make a difference. Also, it's worth considering there are a lot of engineers in your life-position that are on a lot less than you. I also know peeps in research institutes that are way more experienced than you, have families and are well respected in their fields yet earn the same as you and are still happy.

I guess the question is... do you have enough?

always remember that you are in engineering, not banking. and don't get ahead of yourself with those polls.... i have no idea where those values come from.

just chill out and enjoy life; you should have no trouble on your salary.


Quote:
View Post
how does it related to Salary poll then? Majority of people seem to earn much more...
I thought average salaries were pretty high in Swiss...
__________________
Do or do not, there is no try!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 22.04.2008, 10:08
dawiz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,112
Groaned at 96 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,050 Times in 1,191 Posts
dawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

Quote:
View Post
Before any action, you could have a casual chat with people around to see if there's a norm on salary review after probation. Big company normally has well-defined system on compensation package. I think it's better to take company practice as a selling point. Good Luck to you.
I hire people on a more or less regular basis. The 3 months probation period is part of pretty much every contract in Switzerland. During the first 3 months you can quit at short notice (usually 7 days) and you can also be fired at short notice. After that you have the normal (3 or 6 months) notice period. After 3 months your contract doesn't change in any way and it is highly unusual to re-negotiate so soon after you've joined a company.
If one of my staff did that, I'd get seriously worried about his future prospects in the team as this would indicate that the employee isn't happy with his working conditions already after 3 months and that he's already looking for a different job.

You usually have to earn a raise by working hard and doing further training. Clearly, 3 months isn't enough to prove that you need to earn more.

peter
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 22.04.2008, 10:09
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

I don't know any credible consultants that would consult for "a bit more" than 80k, and I know a few.

Considering the OP's limited experience, I would be satisfied with my salary. I am not sure end of probation is really the place to renegotiate as you are being judged against their expectation and what they are paying you now. If you move the goalposts, their assessment may change...

That said, go for it if you are confident enough.

dave


Quote:
View Post
Depends a bit where you work and what you do. The average salary for IT is 80k in Switzerland (http://www.itreseller.ch/news/nw_single.cfm?NW_id=27040). Consultants make a bit more on average.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 22.04.2008, 10:11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 48
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
maxje79 has no particular reputation at present
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

Quote:
View Post
General average is 77'000 for men and (unfairly) only 62'000 for women.
ok... I am just very surprised about how low they're!! 77K over 13 installments are just 4K net a month, which is a pretty lean budget to live in CH...
Or is 77K just a starter salary?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 22.04.2008, 10:18
dawiz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,112
Groaned at 96 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,050 Times in 1,191 Posts
dawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

Quote:
View Post
I don't know any credible consultants that would consult for "a bit more" than 80k, and I know a few.
I'm just quoting http://www.itreseller.ch/news/nw_single.cfm?NW_id=27040 here. I'd say it's pretty hard to estimate the average salary of a "consultant". Many are freelancers and might not be continuously employed. Also, they're talking about IT, not banking here.

But I'd say the average they give for IT positions is within the range I would have guessed myself.

peter
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 22.04.2008, 10:22
dawiz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,112
Groaned at 96 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,050 Times in 1,191 Posts
dawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

Quote:
View Post
ok... I am just very surprised about how low they're!! 77K over 13 installments are just 4K net a month, which is a pretty lean budget to live in CH...
Or is 77K just a starter salary?
Nope, the 77K is the average for all ages and degrees of experience.
Most families live on about 6-7k per month here, which usually includes one full-time worker and one with part-time employment.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 22.04.2008, 10:29
jcro's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 23
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 11 Times in 6 Posts
jcro has earned some respectjcro has earned some respect
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

Most families here live on 6-7k per month?! What are they buying?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 22.04.2008, 10:42
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 48
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
maxje79 has no particular reputation at present
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

Quote:
View Post
Most families here live on 6-7k per month?! What are they buying?
6~7K for a family is really not much... I hope without kids and that they're vegetarian!!!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 22.04.2008, 10:51
cremebrulee's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 418
Groaned at 14 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 355 Times in 155 Posts
cremebrulee has earned the respect of manycremebrulee has earned the respect of manycremebrulee has earned the respect of many
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

I think it is a bit early to negotiate your salary after having only worked for 3 months, unless your contract stipulates that you have an entitlement to a salary review at the end of your probation period. Even then, as others have pointed out, you still have to demonstrate your value to the company.

I have seen several employment contracts where two salaries are agreed upon - a salary during the probation period, and a slightly higher salary after the employee successfully completes the probation period. This is, however, always discussed before the commencement of employment.

Otherwise, most employment contracts only mention one applicable salary, and your conditions of employment should set out the process for when you can apply for a salary review. Most companies generally only review your salary once a year (usually with your end-of-year performance), or perhaps even only after you have worked for 12 months (which means you may sometimes have to wait up to 18 months or longer, depending on when you started, before you will have a salary review).

My recommendation is perhaps not to ask for a salary review now, but mention that you would like to be considered for a salary review when your employer is next required to do so. It is ok to mention that you are aware of your peers earning slightly more than you, and that you wish to be on an equal footing with them.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 22.04.2008, 10:52
dawiz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,112
Groaned at 96 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,050 Times in 1,191 Posts
dawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

Quote:
View Post
Most families here live on 6-7k per month?! What are they buying?
Yeah, and where are they living? I know it's insanely little for a family. We'd have to move into a smaller apartment and we're only 2...

It's just a common mis-conception that salaries are very high in Switzerland on average. IT salaries are about 20% higher than in Germany here, for example. But for most other jobs the difference is more like 5%.
Rents are much lower in Germany, food is cheaper and health-care is cheaper, too. Taxes are higher but you also get more money back from the government, say for visits to the dentist etc. It's a fact that people have more money left at the end of the month in Germany than they do in Switzerland.

A family can live on 6-7k per month but that means:

- no or only very cheap vacations
- having to buy food in Germany (actually having to do it, not choosing to do so)
- a very cheap apartment
- no house
- a very small car

Most of us here are lucky to have enough to enjoy extras like big cars, large apartments, vacations abroad etc. but it should also be clear that a majority in Switzerland (or anywhere else, for that matter) isn't able to afford that.

peter
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 22.04.2008, 10:55
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: My probatory period ends today. Should I renegotiate my contract or not?

Another Clash of earners

Maybe this should be in the collective nouns thread....

dave

Quote:
View Post
Most families here live on 6-7k per month?! What are they buying?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Minimum notice period for monthly-paid contract worker? RolandRB Employment 1 25.02.2008 10:10
Cablecom vs Swisscom and minimum contract period. Gaggiol0 TV/internet/telephone 26 16.02.2008 16:52
implicactions on moving out before the contract ends? highflier Housing in general 5 08.02.2008 11:30
Notice period going from fixed to permanent contract Tedwah Employment 13 04.12.2007 17:03
Analogue TV ends November 26 AbFab TV/internet/telephone 3 07.10.2007 20:22


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0