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  #61  
Old 11.05.2015, 21:47
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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Only option: learn to never accept a job before knowing and discussing salary.
Yes! good feedback!
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  #62  
Old 11.05.2015, 22:36
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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The Swiss will always abide by the contract, it's foreigners who expect a pay off are the problem here. There really is very little to win or loose, just read & understand what is written in your contract under notice. It applies to both parties so is truly fair, rather than fair in taxation terms
I have always had great experiences in the last 12 years here with Swiss managers, perhaps that made me naive and I generalized that I could only expect such high class behavior.

No one is talking about pay off, but learning the rules of the game.

If you read the title again: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

You will see that I have found the answer, all the rest is for our amusement

Last edited by lotusflower80; 11.05.2015 at 22:40. Reason: adding a final line
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  #63  
Old 12.05.2015, 05:18
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

Thats quite a high escalation plan. What happens if, as PapaGoose says, the boss had always that salary in mind and something in the communication failed? I mean, if OP takes for granted that the boss was cheating and does 1. to 4. in your mail, she is basically undermining his name with all type of company powers and colleagues.

Sometimes nobody is wrong, everybody goes with the best intention to the negotiation table and due to miscommunication shit happens. I suggest to start only finding a mediator in HR, addressing the problem as Treverus pointed out to the HR head, to have them facilitating an intermediate solution: either your proposal of 60% ( is a good one, just needs to land the right desk in HR.) Or simply reject the new position and go back to your old one. HR can and should solve this without too much fuzz.





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Common, that's not exactly what happened - she was offered an internal transfer. Every company I have ever worked at had a simple rule: you will not earn less. On the flip side do I also know so large Swiss banks having the rule that you cannot be offered more if you tranisfer internally... (which is the very reason why so many switch from one bank to the other and back...)

I think it's a fair assumption that if a line manager in your company knows your salary, offers you a position and nothing else is said you simply continue to get your salary as is. For internal transfers do you typically not even sign a new contract, but get a one-pager saying PapaGoose will from date x on change to the position of y working in department z.

Bottom line: OP, don't get a lawyer yet. You are morally right, but going to court is an absolute last resort. I'd suggest to try a couple of other things first and only if nothing helps get legal help.

You sound like you are at the point that the bridge with the new guy is burned(?). If yes, escalate it:
1. Talk to your current line manager and discuss the case openly with him. Maybe he wants you back? No need to be ashamed of quitting on him before - openly tell him why you wanted the other position and that you now want your old one back as he might have the less appealing job but clearly is the better manager... trust me, this works with a lot of people...
2. Talk to the new guys superior. Even if you decided to not work for the new guy anymore, he should know. I am heading a department and I really would want to know if my team leaders cock stuff up like this...
3. Make a formal complaint to HR. Not the person who probably sit there with you and the new guy discussing the salary, but whoever the highest HR manager is you can get a hold of. In any decent company did your future ex boss break an entire bunch of policies (that's not necessarily Swiss law, but internal company policies)... no company HR wants managers to poach each others employees to only alienate them with ridiculous behavior afterwards.
4. If absolutely nothing else worked - go one level higher and write to your department head or depending the size of the company CEO directly and express how you did a good job in the past, identify yourself with the company and were super motivated to get an internal transfer - only to be forced to leave if no solution is found.

Bottom line: I do not agree with some of the others here that it's your fault that you did not sign something - I think this is standard practice in large companies. Make a fuzz about it and think your options through:
- go back to the old job? Yes, it has been communicated that you'd change... but do they have a replacement yet? I know it makes you feel a bit embarrassed to your peers and old boss, but honestly: the other manager screwed it up and well... shit happens.
- it's certainly not a good to start with the new boss, but well: maybe if he gets a bit of a dressing down from the top HR on how he behaved things can be fixed. I know first impressions are important, but well - all those alleged budget reasons are things that can be adapted and fixed a level higher.
- other jobs availabe in your company?
Only if nothing of this works out I'd leave. I would not sign a contract with a lower salary: It will affect you worse than leaving - if you earn less will you for example also get less unemployment benefits if you decide to leave later.
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Old 12.05.2015, 07:33
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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Thats quite a high escalation plan. What happens if, as PapaGoose says, the boss had always that salary in mind and something in the communication failed?
I have hired quite some people before and somehow did I never fail on mentioning salary. Especially if the person would be taking a severe pay cut to join my team... as I would be really intrigued that she wanted the job so badly.
Honestly: there is no excuse for the communication breaking down at this point and a manager simply expecting a candidate to take 25% less is in my opinion worse than a rather naive OP.

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I mean, if OP takes for granted that the boss was cheating and does 1. to 4. in your mail, she is basically undermining his name with all type of company powers and colleagues.
Steps 1 to 4 are sequential... you do them one at a time to solve the problem. I never said the new boss was cheating, I am saying he is unprofessional. I think that the other powers in the company deserve to know this if it turns out to be fact - because people are usually not selectively unprofessional when it comes to HR matters but probably act the same in other work relations.
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  #65  
Old 13.05.2015, 05:25
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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Interesting attitude. You do understand that some lawyers are giving advise here on the forum ? Don't be too surprised in case you don't get any feedback from any of them.
You do understand she is venting a bit, maybe a harsh comment, but hey you guys do earn a heckuva lot a money and when a mere not so high paid mortal has to pay those big fees it is painful ! That is why I have lawyer insurance (HINT!)
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  #66  
Old 13.05.2015, 05:56
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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That is why I have lawyer insurance (HINT!)
I value lawyers for the job they do... but for cases like this one do I strongly recommend common sense over any legal insurance.
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  #67  
Old 13.05.2015, 06:19
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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You will see that I have found the answer, all the rest is for our amusement
C'mon lets leave the OP alone. I've got a feeling he/she will be back with the second episode.
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Old 13.05.2015, 10:43
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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I have always had great experiences in the last 12 years here with Swiss managers, perhaps that made me naive and I generalized that I could only expect such high class behavior.

No one is talking about pay off, but learning the rules of the game.

If you read the title again: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

You will see that I have found the answer, all the rest is for our amusement
Either side can change their minds for any reason at any time, it's very fair & dealt with by giving notice.

IIRC you did not accept their offer....... You made a counter offer so you have a short memory.

You need to learn the rules of the game, are you by any chance an only child who always got away stamping your foot?
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  #69  
Old 13.05.2015, 22:34
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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are you by any chance an only child who always got away stamping your foot?
it's probably not leading anywhere if we start to go down this route with the OP... let's just stay resourceful and supportive, shall we?
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Old 15.05.2015, 05:19
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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Absolutely not true. I know several people who fought successfully their employers (and their illegal and/or abusive practices), got the justice, and then found new job happily.

Luckily, Switzerland is the country where law is above individual employers and illegal HR practices.


I fought my former employer and won. My former employer fired
me for looking for another Job and didn't pay my three months notice.


I won, and I have had several Jobs since then.
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Old 17.05.2015, 23:25
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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I have hired quite some people before and somehow did I never fail on mentioning salary. Especially if the person would be taking a severe pay cut to join my team... as I would be really intrigued that she wanted the job so badly.
Honestly: there is no excuse for the communication breaking down at this point and a manager simply expecting a candidate to take 25% less is in my opinion worse than a rather naive OP.



Steps 1 to 4 are sequential... you do them one at a time to solve the problem. I never said the new boss was cheating, I am saying he is unprofessional. I think that the other powers in the company deserve to know this if it turns out to be fact - because people are usually not selectively unprofessional when it comes to HR matters but probably act the same in other work relations.
You only have one side of the story. I ve also hired quite some people, and some companies recommend in their interviewing guidelines not to mention salaries until the interviewee asks , especially on companies that publish salary ranges for each position listing, so if you are doing an internal move by applying to a certain position you know the scale and thus the salary level. Again, with only one side of the story we don t know if the boss could assume that she knew the salary level when accepting, he simply welcomed her to his team. I find it simple: OP wildly accepts, boss welcomes her, once the salary topic was discussed, the OP finds out it is not what she wants. So whats the problem? Take your old job, learn to ask before accepting a job and don t make a huge fuzz because sorry to say, the boss didn t inform, but the OP didn t ask. I have seen very experienced, honorable and professional people having a miscommunication, we are all human. The blame is at the very least to be shared in my opinion, and under this situation reaching to the CEO or going to court seems to me quite adventurous, even if the other steps fail. BTW, if the intermediate steps like HR fail, may be that the new boss is manipulating, as has been suggested, OR may also well be that OP is telling us only one side and there are good reasons for going back to point zero.
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