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Old 02.10.2015, 03:05
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Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

Hi all - I trawled through the forum but I really didn't see a post that completely addressed this situation, and I am in PANIC mode.

On September 30 my boss had a talk with me and said that based on performance and feedback from the various teams, he did not think that my performance was meeting the standards of the expectations, and he did not think I could "catch up". He said "I would prefer to give you your 2 months and let you go" but I pleaded that he have more internal discussions. He said he would and we would sit down the next day (October 1). He did not give me any formal notice of termination and discuss any terms; the wording was very vague.

The next morning I came in and actually did some work (which is documentable as it is on various IT systems). He told me he had some calls overnight and indeed no one agreed that I should be kept on. At that point he gave me my letter and asked if I would read and sign it. I said I needed time and also I needed some help because the 2 months wasn't enough; he said he would "give me" an "extra month", although when I told him that I wasn't really given definitive and proper notification on the 30th, he said "yes but my message was clear".

Who would be considered right if we "went legal"? Was his allusion to his wanting to terminate me considered enough of a verbal notification, or was the effective date really the 1st when he said indeed it won't work out and here's the letter?

I started the job in June and I now am not eligible for unemployment in Vaud starting after those 3 months given the short duration of employment. Will I be simply income-less after those 3 months and burning serious amounts of cash?

The firm is pressuring me to sign, saying "if you don't sign by 4pm we will 'go legal' and 'it will be war'. Is this reasonable and allowed?

Would really appreciate advice and names and emails and phones of any employment lawyers in Lausanne/Morges area that would be recommended to consult with, ideally not too expensive.
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Old 02.10.2015, 07:32
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

You're not having a lot of luck are you srd6.

Unemployment benefits - amount / deductions / timing etc.

The question is have you been working before this current job or not? If so, then you should get unemployment if you've been working for the last 12 months I believe. If you haven't then it may be a case of how many days you had left on your previous unemployment stint - the max is 400 days iirc less whatever you'd already used before you found this job. I'm not really up on the unemployment side of things so hopefully someone else can give you more useful info.

This may help with the termination side of things.

https://www.ch.ch/en/terminating-employment-contract/

Whether his intent is enough to qualify as verbal termination of the contract I don't know.
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Old 02.10.2015, 08:01
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

Hi - thanks. Even if the intent wasn't clear he agreed to give me the full 3 months, including the "extra month" of this month, which would not have been the case if they went legal and said, the discussion on the 30th was termination and that's that. So I think there is no fight to be fought there.

I was in Luzern in 2010-2013 and collected benefits there for about 6 months (or 120 days). Then I moved to Asia and only came back to Switzerland this June, so I only really arrived. Not sure if somehow the unemployment from that past time would count as something.

I assume that I had to have been gainfully employed somewhere in Switzerland in the last 12 months, not just anywhere, to collect?

Thanks for your advice, really helpful, yes certainly not such great luck.
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Old 02.10.2015, 08:19
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

Yes, certainly to have worked either in Switzerland or the EU as there are reciprocal agreements on paying unemployment, but unless Switzerland has some sort of treaty agreeing this with the country you were in what work you did there wouldn't count I'm afraid. And yes, 2013 is too far back to count in your current situation.

I agree that it's not really worth fighting over, especially if you get the extra month. Given that's it's your probation period I assume, he didn't have to be generous. Just make sure that it's written into your termination letter so you have proof of it.

Let's hope you can find a new job quickly, because I don't think you'd be entitled to any help from your commune, etc, unless you're a Swiss national so without unemployment you will be without income at the end of the 3 months. Not sure if you need to sign on with RAV or not as you can't claim any unemployment, but it never hurts to ask them. They may be able to help on the job front or whether there may be any other forms of income you might be eligible for.
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Old 02.10.2015, 08:31
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

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Hi - thanks. Even if the intent wasn't clear he agreed to give me the full 3 months, including the "extra month" of this month, which would not have been the case if they went legal and said, the discussion on the 30th was termination and that's that. So I think there is no fight to be fought there.

I was in Luzern in 2010-2013 and collected benefits there for about 6 months (or 120 days). Then I moved to Asia and only came back to Switzerland this June, so I only really arrived. Not sure if somehow the unemployment from that past time would count as something.

I assume that I had to have been gainfully employed somewhere in Switzerland in the last 12 months, not just anywhere, to collect?

Thanks for your advice, really helpful, yes certainly not such great luck.
You need to have been employed and paid into the unemployment fund for at least 12 months of the past 24 months. See p. 93 at the below linked Swiss government document:

"A person is entitled to unemployment benefits when he or she had been employed and paying compulsory contributions for at least 12 months during the two-year period immediately prior to registering with the unemployment office. In addition, the applicant must provide proof of a valid loss of employment, be available for and capable of work, and satisfy all supervision-related conditions." p. 93

https://www.ahv-iv.ch/Portals/0/Docu...01-01-2015.pdf

You can find a Swiss labor attorney in your area by searching on the Swiss Bar Association's website:

https://www.sav-fsa.ch/en/anwaltssuc...eltin-sav.html
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Old 02.10.2015, 08:46
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

Working in the EU can count to the minimum of 12 months you refer to.

By law the OP would only be entitled to 1 months notice, so what I want to know is what is written into the contract as thats what he will get if it goes legal. Of course if it does he won't get a reference as for such a short employment it's not required.

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You need to have been employed and paid into the unemployment fund for at least 12 months of the past 24 months. See p. 93 at the below linked Swiss government document:

"A person is entitled to unemployment benefits when he or she had been employed and paying compulsory contributions for at least 12 months during the two-year period immediately prior to registering with the unemployment office. In addition, the applicant must provide proof of a valid loss of employment, be available for and capable of work, and satisfy all supervision-related conditions." p. 93

https://www.ahv-iv.ch/Portals/0/Docu...01-01-2015.pdf

You can find a Swiss labor attorney in your area by searching on the Swiss Bar Association's website:

https://www.sav-fsa.ch/en/anwaltssuc...eltin-sav.html
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Old 02.10.2015, 08:51
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

So, you worked for 3 months, your work wasn't up to the required standard, on the last day of the 3 months they said they wished to terminate. You persuaded them to delay the termination - they did - and the following day came back and said that it stood.

They offered 2 months pay - and then offered to extend that to 3 because of the delay.

Take it - you won't get any other better offer!

Don't argue - don't kick up a fuss. Chalk it up to experience and work your arse off getting and then keeping the next job.
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Old 02.10.2015, 09:07
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

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...The next morning I came in and actually did some work (which is documentable as it is on various IT systems).
I'd really rephrase that. I'm sure that it's not the case, but the way you've said that makes it seem as if you did bugger all for three months and only pulled your finger out of your arse when faced with dismissal.

Basically going to a lawyer will get you nowhere. The firm you work for have done everything above board and legal. Take Dodgy's advice and suck it up. Creating a fuss at this point might make your future employability problematic (word gets around), so just go with it.
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Old 02.10.2015, 09:21
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

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Hi - thanks. Even if the intent wasn't clear he agreed to give me the full 3 months, including the "extra month" of this month, which would not have been the case if they went legal and said, the discussion on the 30th was termination and that's that. So I think there is no fight to be fought there.
He's already said he's decided not to fight it.
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Old 02.10.2015, 09:24
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If I'm not wrong benefits in Switzerland need to be paid back its like a debt
Whilst in UK you never pay it back
Tell me if I'm wrong

And for the OP sign the 3 month thingy and I'm sure you will find another job

Last edited by Guest; 02.10.2015 at 10:34. Reason: Merging successive posts. You should be able to use the Edit button to avoid this.
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Old 02.10.2015, 09:29
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

You are wrong.
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Old 02.10.2015, 09:31
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

Yes you are totally, 100% wrong.

Unemployment is financed through deductions from the salary, think of it as an insurance scheme.
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Old 02.10.2015, 09:50
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Yes you are totally, 100% wrong.

Unemployment is financed through deductions from the salary, think of it as an insurance scheme.
That's only for one year though isn't it?

And throughout that year you have to prove show that you are looking for a job correct? Sort of like job seekers allowance ?

Or is it after that year that it starts being like a loan that you have to pay back and also prove you are looking for jobs in the meanwhile ?

Last edited by Guest; 02.10.2015 at 10:34. Reason: Merging successive posts. You should be able to use the Edit button to avoid this.
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Old 02.10.2015, 12:58
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

The rule is you usually get 400 days of unemployment benefit if you're fully up to date. That works out at around 18 months' worth. If you haven't found anything in that time then as far as I know you then get nothing, unless there are any schemes via your commune/gemeinde or you're a Swiss national. It's not a loan in any form and doesn't have to be paid back. I think you're thinking of social aid which is different and does have to be paid back iirc.
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Old 02.10.2015, 15:45
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

I suggest you read on this forum, you obviously have no idea whatsoever.

It's for up to 400 days per year depending on various circumstances

Yes you need to look for jobs, it is not a free check each month.

You do not need to pay unemployment benefits back. Which bit of this sentence you got problem with ?

After you allotted period, they pay nothing, you go over to social services who means test you before handing out anything.

Sometimes it is best not to post but just to read and use the search function.
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Old 02.10.2015, 16:01
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

You are kind of right. Sozialhilfe needs to be paid back.
Unemployment benefits are like insurance payouts and don't need to be paid back.
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Old 02.10.2015, 16:20
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

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You are kind of right. Sozialhilfe often needs to be paid back.
Unemployment benefits are like insurance payouts and don't need to be paid back.
FTFY.

Tom
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Old 02.10.2015, 16:22
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

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It's for up to 400 days per year depending on various circumstances
Only if you're Doctor Who, or being charged out by a consultancy
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Old 02.10.2015, 17:03
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

Eeek! You're right newto switz. I meant to write 400 days spread over 2 years - works out at around 18 months really. But I see Today only made the same mistake - so I feel a bit better.
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Old 03.10.2015, 08:09
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Re: Employment termination - verbal "notice"? No unemployment benefits? PANIC

I'm only curious . I don't intend to claim unemployment as I haven't worked in Switzerland as I'm still registered as living in UK. I just visit here since 8 years every month. Not ready to live here but I was just disputing with my partner regarding the whole thing.Out of curiosity how my much approx does one get paid here for unemployment and is it paid per fortnight or month ? Thanks
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