 | | | 
20.12.2015, 05:45
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Here
Posts: 1,973
Groaned at 193 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 2,895 Times in 937 Posts
| | Salaries sinking?
So, after a 7-year stint at my previous employer making the proverbial 120K+, my job was "outsourced" (actually replaced by the same function internally but at an EU subsidiary where they can pay much less).
After much scrambling, nail-biting and interviewing, I landed a new job... but had to accept 20% less than what I was making before.
Is this a sign of the times? Competition from EU migrants, the strong Swiss Franc... kids fresh out of university... all accepting far less than what I have been used to in the past.
Anyone else feeling this downwards pressure on salaries?
| 
20.12.2015, 07:15
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,899
Groaned at 97 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 921 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking?
Yup. Upon our return also 20%less (and I was nowhere near the 120k) Same for my wife....
| The following 2 users would like to thank Anthony1406 for this useful post: | | 
20.12.2015, 09:25
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SZ
Posts: 10,689
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 24,874 Times in 7,778 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking?
That salaries are falling is the elephant in the room.
No one wants to talk about it for fear that they themselves will be next.
The writing is on the wall, though...
For a long time Swiss salaries were sustained by consumers willing to pay high prices. And in the purely domestic market the willingness is still more or less there.
But today many companies' business is largely with customers abroad. The claim/myth of 'Swiss quality' sustained high prices and thus salaries for some time, but today that's largely gone with competition producing equal (or better) goods and services at lower prices.
Swiss salaries are too high to compete in today's global marketplace.
Many companies are under extreme cost pressure, the most glaring cost is labor. An MNC looks at salaries in Switzerland vs salaries in other locations and if a return justifying those higher wages is not clearly evident cuts have to be made.
Given the economies of much of the rest of the EU, even at reduced salaries there are plenty of qualified folk still willing to move here for less. Or stay at home, where the no-longer-Swiss job has now been moved.
Interesting times ahead...
Last edited by meloncollie; 20.12.2015 at 09:37.
| The following 22 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post: | 3Wishes, Aeneas, Assassin, Cactina, danny, greenmount, jacek, kaciak, Karl, Longbyt, MotorsportsNorton, Mullhollander, Nixi, noipv4, NomadAmericano, parnell, porsch1909, Tom1234, VFR on top, zmaster1911, ZuriRollt | 
20.12.2015, 09:38
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,444
Groaned at 172 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 4,863 Times in 1,878 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking? | Quote: | |  | | | That salaries are falling is the elephant in the room.
It's plain to see what is happening but no one wants to talk about it for fear that they themselves will be next.
The writing is on the wall, though...
For a long time Swiss salaries were sustained by consumers willing to pay high prices. And in the purely domestic market the willingness is still more or less there.
But today many companies' business is largely with customers abroad. The claim/myth of 'Swiss quality' sustained high prices and thus salaries for some time, but today that's largely gone with competition producing equal (or better) goods and services at lower prices.
Swiss salaries are too high to compete in today's global marketplace.
Many companies are under extreme cost pressure, the most glaring cost is labor. An MNC looks at salaries in Switzerland vs salaries in other locations and if a return justifying those higher wages is not clearly evident cuts have to be made.
Given the economies of much of the rest of the EU, even at reduced salaries there are plenty of qualified folk still willing to move here for less. Or stay at home, where the no-longer-Swiss job has now been moved.
Interesting times ahead... | | | | | Which in turn is a worry for the housing market because if wages fall house prices must logically follow suit.
| The following 7 users would like to thank Mikers for this useful post: | | 
20.12.2015, 09:52
|  | Moderately Dutch | | Join Date: May 2011 Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,630
Groaned at 354 Times in 295 Posts
Thanked 12,953 Times in 6,139 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking?
Same experience here on the salary side
| 
20.12.2015, 10:24
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: ZH
Posts: 5,328
Groaned at 58 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,696 Times in 1,612 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking?
Count yourself lucky you're employed, I know I'm grateful for my salary even if it has stayed at a level par.
| The following 6 users would like to thank SOBEIT for this useful post: | | 
20.12.2015, 10:44
|  | Moderately Dutch | | Join Date: May 2011 Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,630
Groaned at 354 Times in 295 Posts
Thanked 12,953 Times in 6,139 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking?
I am grateful! I had to start looking for a new job this year as my previous employer closed down the offices in Switzerland and with a "5" in my age I wasn´t too much looking forward applying for a new job. So yes, I am happy to have found another one even if the salary is lower!
| The following 9 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post: | | 
20.12.2015, 11:21
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Aargau
Posts: 2,562
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 3,548 Times in 1,571 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking?
Google Switzerland is complaining about the high labor costs in Switzerland and difficulties to obtain work permits for new (non-EU) hires. Engineers cost 20-30% more in Zurich than in London and, due to this and the immigration issues, Google is expanding its London center: https://translate.google.de/translat...322&edit-text= | The following 2 users would like to thank Mullhollander for this useful post: | | 
20.12.2015, 12:16
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sarganserland / NW Lower Penin
Posts: 3,526
Groaned at 43 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 7,410 Times in 2,314 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking? | Quote: | |  | | | Google Switzerland is complaining about the high labor costs in Switzerland and difficulties to obtain work permits for new (non-EU) hires. Engineers cost 20-30% more in Zurich than in London and, due to this and the immigration issues, Google is expanding its London center: https://translate.google.de/translat...322&edit-text= | | | | | They could have googled that already years ago.
| The following 13 users would like to thank Captain Greybeard for this useful post: | adrianlondon, Clumsy Maman, Corbets, gaburko, kaciak, karol.k, logo123, marton, meloncollie, Mullhollander, noipv4, tintin26, xkcd | 
20.12.2015, 12:36
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Geroldswil
Posts: 513
Groaned at 186 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 1,767 Times in 872 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking? | Quote: | |  | | | Which in turn is a worry for the housing market because if wages fall house prices must logically follow suit. | | | | | It's usually much much worse as the housing market typically overshoots... we were looking at buying a pad in ZH recently where initial price was 1.6m - came down to 1.45m but because of advice we've since received it seems likely it's worth 1.3m max
| 
20.12.2015, 12:45
|  | Senior Member | | Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Zzzzug
Posts: 302
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 166 Times in 86 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking?
agree, the new salaries here have taken a massive hit (makes the move to working in London more attractive now). Salaries have been offered here that are less then what I received +6 years ago with zero experience back then. Strong franc, EU migration main cause. Companies simply hire the cheapest and not necessary the most skilled...
| The following 2 users would like to thank Halfasleep for this useful post: | | 
20.12.2015, 12:50
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,813
Groaned at 1,077 Times in 741 Posts
Thanked 18,289 Times in 7,112 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking? | Quote: | |  | | | Google Switzerland is complaining about the high labor costs in Switzerland and difficulties to obtain work permits for new (non-EU) hires. Engineers cost 20-30% more in Zurich than in London and, due to this and the immigration issues, Google is expanding its London center: https://translate.google.de/translat...322&edit-text= | | | | | Good job they don't pay taxes then, eh?
| The following 4 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post: | | 
20.12.2015, 13:02
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Aargau
Posts: 2,562
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 3,548 Times in 1,571 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking?
In the period approx. 1998 to 2001 the labor market for certain kinds of employees was very tight in Switzerland. My former employer increased its offers by around 20% to attract employees from other companies to fill vacancies (caused by our employees leaving for a 20% boost at another company).
As a result of the Swiss recession that started mid-year 2001 new hires who were unemployed could be brought in to these same jobs at the pre-1998 levels and the employees hired from 1998 to 2001 were considered "overpaid" in the company. Some underperforming "overpaid" employees were exited from the company.
| 
20.12.2015, 13:05
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: ZH
Posts: 5,328
Groaned at 58 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,696 Times in 1,612 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking? | Quote: | |  | | | agree, the new salaries here have taken a massive hit (makes the move to working in London more attractive now). Salaries have been offered here that are less then what I received +6 years ago with zero experience back then. Strong franc, EU migration main cause. Companies simply hire the cheapest and not necessary the most skilled... | | | | | Not necessarily, I made the hop from CW to here for that reason alone, plus the work, life balance is far more attractive especially when you move into your forties..
| 
20.12.2015, 13:14
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baselland
Posts: 12,814
Groaned at 204 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 18,534 Times in 7,565 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking? | Quote: | |  | | | Which in turn is a worry for the housing market because if wages fall house prices must logically follow suit. | | | | | What housing market? As long as I've been here, buying a house as an investment has been usually thought of as a bad idea.
| The following 6 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post: | | 
20.12.2015, 13:15
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: ZH
Posts: 5,328
Groaned at 58 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,696 Times in 1,612 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking? | Quote: | |  | | | What housing market? As long as I've been here, buying a house as an investment has been usually thought of as a bad idea. | | | | | Has it...? | 
20.12.2015, 13:17
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: 2.72548 K
Posts: 1,551
Groaned at 40 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 1,460 Times in 731 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking?
The downward pressure on salaries is a direct consequence of the SNB dropping the currency peg. Currency rises about 20%; salaries drop about 20%. It's almost beautiful in the same brutal way that a B-52 is.
On the bright side, your Swiss assets are up about 20%. So it's looking ok so far...
| This user would like to thank speakeron for this useful post: | | 
20.12.2015, 13:18
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,545
Groaned at 66 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 3,689 Times in 2,009 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking?
It probably depends on what your job actually is.
At least where I work, we simply cannot afford to hire the cheapest. We also can't just hire someone from Spain or Greece - they have to understand our customers' Swiss-German dialect.
But I'm pretty sure that if I'd change jobs, I'd have to start with less salary than what I have now.
| The following 3 users would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post: | | 
20.12.2015, 13:22
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,545
Groaned at 66 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 3,689 Times in 2,009 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking? | Quote: | |  | | | Has it...?  | | | | |
It was probably OK-ish until the 90s, while gains in land-prices offset the deprecation of the building.
Nowadays, people liquidating 2nd and 3rd pillars to buy their "dream-house" with almost no land - I'm quite sure they could be in for a brutal awakening once they reach retirement age.
| This user would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post: | | 
20.12.2015, 13:23
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,813
Groaned at 1,077 Times in 741 Posts
Thanked 18,289 Times in 7,112 Posts
| | Re: Salaries sinking? | Quote: | |  | | | It probably depends on what your job actually is.
At least where I work, we simply cannot afford to hire the cheapest. We also can't just hire someone from Spain or Greece - they have to understand our customers' Swiss-German dialect.
But I'm pretty sure that if I'd change jobs, I'd have to start with less salary than what I have now. | | | | | I think it also depends on the area you work in... some stay centralized in Switzerland and are always in demand. I got a good pay rise with my last job change late this year and I can't see my salary going down even if I change companies in a couple of years (though of course nothing is guaranteed).
| This user would like to thank Chuff for this useful post: | |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:52. | |