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Old 04.05.2016, 13:36
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Sacked during notice period?

I am considering resigning from my job in October, when I will be in my second year of employment at my current company. My notice period according to my contract is three months. As I understand an employer can sack an employee with just two months notice in the second year of employment. So my questions are:

1/ Once I give my notice, can my employer sack me?

2/ If I am sacked within my notice period, am I entitled to claim unemployment money from RAV?
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Old 04.05.2016, 13:43
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

If your employer "fires" you after you've resigned, they are still obliged to pay your salary during your notice period- unless you found a new job where you can start immediately working. If he fires you, contact your local RAV immediately. Employee and Employer have the same time of notice period. It's against the law if the employer has a shorter or longer notice period than the employee.
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Old 04.05.2016, 13:45
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

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I am considering resigning from my job in October, when I will be in my second year of employment at my current company. My notice period according to my contract is three months. As I understand an employer can sack an employee with just two months notice in the second year of employment. So my questions are:

1/ Once I give my notice, can my employer sack me?

2/ If I am sacked within my notice period, am I entitled to claim unemployment money from RAV?
If your contract says 3 months notice, then it overrides the statutory 2 months notice.
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Old 04.05.2016, 13:47
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

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It's against the law if the employer has a shorter or longer notice period than the employee.
Are you sure about that? 3 months notice, for employees, seems to be standard in many jobs here. Notice employers have to give is just one month in year one and two months in year two.
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Old 04.05.2016, 13:48
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

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I am considering resigning from my job in October, when I will be in my second year of employment at my current company. My notice period according to my contract is three months.
Any notice period is binding for both parties, always.

The only thing your employer could do is the "fristlose Kündigung" (termination without notice) which is something that they'd really have to argue about quite a bit (and which would give you quite a black mark with RAV)
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Old 04.05.2016, 13:50
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

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Are you sure about that? 3 months notice, for employees, seems to be standard in many jobs here. Notice employers have to give is just one month in year one and two months in year two.
Swiss law is extremely specific and @Corbets is right: Any contractually defined notice period
a) applies to both parties
b) must be the same for both parties
c) overrides whatever law says (law only defines the minimum notice periods)
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Old 04.05.2016, 13:52
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

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Swiss law is extremely specific and @Corbets is right: Any contractually defined notice period
a) applies to both parties
b) must be the same for both parties
c) overrides whatever law says (law only defines the minimum notice periods)
c) is the important one -> contractual notice period may not be shorter than the legally required minimum. However, if longer, it is longer equally for both parties.
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Old 04.05.2016, 13:59
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

I have always understod that an employee can be sacked with just one months notice within the first year of employment, regardless of what notice period is contained in the contract. Am I wrong here?
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Old 04.05.2016, 13:59
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

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I have always understod that an employee can be sacked with just one months notice within the first year of employment, regardless of what notice period is contained in the contract. Am I wrong here?
Yes.
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Old 04.05.2016, 14:03
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

I guess that it depends what you are sacked for. The best thing is don't do anything that would justify sacking. Some things like IT crime could well justify instant dismissal.

As you are mentioning the subject of sacking could that mean that there is a real possibility due to previous performance or warnings? If that is the case, you need to be extra careful
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Old 04.05.2016, 14:11
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

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could that mean that there is a real possibility due to previous performance or warnings?
My performance is pretty poor on some tasks, good on others. The company is making money on me as the stuff I do well is on projects in the banking sector.

4 years ago, I was sacked with just one months notice during my first year of employment, despite having passed my trial period and having a three month notice period in my contract. RAV did pay me and said the sacking was legal, as did UNIA when I asked them.
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Old 04.05.2016, 14:23
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

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My performance is pretty poor on some tasks, good on others. The company is making money on me as the stuff I do well is on projects in the banking sector.

4 years ago, I was sacked with just one months notice during my first year of employment, despite having passed my trial period and having a three month notice period in my contract. RAV did pay me and said the sacking was legal, as did UNIA when I asked them.
You could have insisted they pay you the extra 2 months.....
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Old 04.05.2016, 14:31
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

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You could have insisted they pay you the extra 2 months.....
if only I had known that...
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Old 04.05.2016, 14:32
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

Also, you won't be able to receive unemployment benefits until you've left your job. You will need at least 18 months service to be elgible for unemployement benefits.
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Old 04.05.2016, 14:38
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

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I have always understod that an employee can be sacked with just one months notice within the first year of employment, regardless of what notice period is contained in the contract. Am I wrong here?
Yes you are wrong. If your contract stipulates accordingly, you can have a 2 year notice period for all anyone cares. One month is the legal minimum, though.

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4 years ago, I was sacked with just one months notice during my first year of employment, despite having passed my trial period and having a three month notice period in my contract. RAV did pay me and said the sacking was legal, as did UNIA when I asked them.
Then you were really stupid. Yes the sacking was of course legal, cause it pretty much always is save for a very small number of exceptions (illness to a certain point, pregnancy, military). The lack of payment for 3 months was not legal.


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Also, you won't be able to receive unemployment benefits until you've left your job. You will need at least 18 months service to be elgible for unemployement benefits.
No. You need to have worked for 12 months in the last 24 months to be eligible. And, of course, if you quit yourself, the blocking periods until you receive payment are longer than if you've been let go in some way or another.
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Old 04.05.2016, 14:43
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

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Then you were really stupid. Yes the sacking was of course legal, cause it pretty much always is save for a very small number of exceptions (illness to a certain point, pregnancy, military). The lack of payment for 3 months was not legal.
Yes, I was. BUT, why did RAV not point this out at the time? After all, I got paid one month's notice by the employer and RAV paid me from that point.

And, could I still ask the company to pay me the two months to which I was entitled?
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Old 04.05.2016, 15:48
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

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Yes, I was. BUT, why did RAV not point this out at the time? After all, I got paid one month's notice by the employer and RAV paid me from that point.

And, could I still ask the company to pay me the two months to which I was entitled?
They probably assumed it was one month as that is the legal minimum in the first year of employment.

As for the second question: I don't think so. You got your money, just not from those who should have been paying. If anything that would be a matter between RAV and your former company. You got less I assume (70% vs 100%), but I doubt you can do anything now.
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Old 06.05.2016, 10:59
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

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No. You need to have worked for 12 months in the last 24 months to be eligible. And, of course, if you quit yourself, the blocking periods until you receive payment are longer than if you've been let go in some way or another.
AFAIK, while you'll be eligible for Arbeitslosengeld after 12 months employment, you'll only be covered with the equivalent of 12 months. To get the full 18 months (within a window of 2 years) you need to have 18 employment under your belt.
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Old 06.05.2016, 14:25
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

http://www.bsv.admin.ch/kmu/ratgeber...00741/?lang=de
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Old 06.05.2016, 16:08
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Re: Sacked during notice period?

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Yes, I was. BUT, why did RAV not point this out at the time? After all, I got paid one month's notice by the employer and RAV paid me from that point.

And, could I still ask the company to pay me the two months to which I was entitled?
Simultaneously "Yes" and "Partially No".

"Yes" because the employers obligation to pay stands for five years. Since you were sacked four years ago the obligation stands for one more year. The countdown starts the day your salary would have beeen due, it is stopped (halted) by a) the employer acknowledging his debt or b) by you launching a Betreibung.

"Partially No" because you already received unemployment benefits. For simplicity's sake I'm assuming you got paid 60% of your standard salary, so while the employer is obliged to pay for two more months (plus pro rata of your 13th salary [i.e. 1/6 thereof] plus additional benefits if applicable) you would only receive 2x40% with the remainder going to the Arbeitslosenkasse you got paid by as they paid the first 60% to you four years ago already.

So you would benefit by 2x 40% for the missing two months. With that said it seems unlikely that you are correct because both the employer and the RAV would need to have overlooked that special contract clause, so you should verify that first.

If however you indeed are correct, as a second step you may want to contact an Arbeitslosenkasse other than the one you were/are insured/paid-out by and enquire what would happen in such a case. Because it may be that you are to pay back the 2x60% you already received and go after your employer yourself, which may or may not be tricky and costly; if however the Arbeitslosenkasse goes directly after the ex-employer (acting in your stead where necessary) then it's all dandy and nice for you. The former variant seems unlikely to me but nonetheless I would want to do this enquiry anonymously so I'd ask a Arbeitslosenkasse other than the one I was insured at (paid by) during the applicable Rahmenfrist. I think every Kantonale Arbeitslosenkasse offer free legal advice and also know proper standards and procedures.
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