Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03.06.2016, 15:17
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Portugal
Posts: 6
Groaned at 7 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
Juntilhas has no particular reputation at present
Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

Hello everyone!

I know this subject has been discussed over and over and that the opinions differ a bit... However, as most of the posts are not that recent, I would like to raise this again.

I have the possibility to move to Zurich with my family (wife and two children of 3 and 1 year old) and I would like to know what would be a comfortable salary a nice living. We don't have to live in the city center, I have seen nice neighborhoods in the surroundings that I think could be a better option to save some money.

The idea is that kids will start school when they reach Kindergarden age (which I believe is free??) but this also means that my wife will not have any earnings before that. We have a comfortable life in Portugal and we understand that we will have to adapt our life style (for example, eating out in Portugal is relatively cheap and this for sure we will have to adjust in Zurich), but we would like to afford travelling in the country and neighbor countries and practice some skiing in the winter time. And of course have money for vacations twice a year (coming to Portugal).

Any thoughts/advice would be very welcome!
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users groan at Juntilhas for this post:
  #2  
Old 03.06.2016, 15:29
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,690
Groaned at 282 Times in 233 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

Give or take 800,000chf per year should cover it.
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
The following 3 users groan at dodgyken for this post:
  #3  
Old 03.06.2016, 15:31
Laempefescht's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 265
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 239 Times in 103 Posts
Laempefescht has earned the respect of manyLaempefescht has earned the respect of manyLaempefescht has earned the respect of many
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

Hi Juntilhas

Welcome to the Forum.

If you have the time, search "cost of living" in the search function.

The most recent on I found:

Costs of living - family of 3
Cost of living - Winterthur near Zurich
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Laempefescht for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 03.06.2016, 15:31
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,187
Groaned at 855 Times in 598 Posts
Thanked 16,623 Times in 6,533 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

Quote:
View Post
Hello everyone!

I know this subject has been discussed over and over and that the opinions differ a bit... However, as most of the posts are not that recent, I would like to raise this again.
There are many recent posts on the issue that go into detail on all aspects of cost of living here. Maybe instead of taking the easy option, you can tell us what you have gathered from your research and then we can confirm any specific questions you have.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 03.06.2016, 15:34
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,283
Groaned at 111 Times in 90 Posts
Thanked 7,029 Times in 2,686 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

How are we supposed to know that without knowing what you do for a living and what you have done so far and possibly at what salary? Whether you plan to come here to work as a kindergarten teacher or as a CEO for an MNC on a beautiful assignment package will matter, obviously.

Plenty of people who are perfectly capable of living a decent enough life as a family on 75k p.a. Plenty of others - especially some on this forum - who will claim anything below 200k p.a. is essentially absolute poverty. Of course again, without knowing what you do, it's impossible to give you any insight as there's no way to know what salary you could even realistically expect.

And most posts are recent as this question is being asked at least five times a week in some way or another
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 03.06.2016, 15:45
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 10,299
Groaned at 72 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 16,711 Times in 7,572 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

Welcome to the Forum.

As you've seen, there's a lot of info here. What you might not know is that inflation is basically flat - so any post on costs that was posted even 5 years ago is probably still within the ballpark. The only thing I can think of that's gone up for us are insurance costs.

Here are some threads that I think cover the topic nicely, including links and examples of actual expenses. Don't be put off by the date of the original post:

Cost of living - help needed to get it right

Cost of living in Switzerland-with examples

There are more than 100 threads that talk about cost of living. Some might be relevant to you and others not, but do have a read through the more recent ones. There's a LOT of good advice in there:

http://www.englishforum.ch/search2.php?q=cost+of+living

Hopefully you can compare your own current costs and lifestyle that you consider "comfortable", and determine whether the move is for you and your family.

In terms of housing, as you look on comparison sites you probably want at least a 4.5 room apartment. That means 3 bedrooms (at least in the German-speaking areas).

Hope that helps.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 03.06.2016, 15:49
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,283
Groaned at 111 Times in 90 Posts
Thanked 7,029 Times in 2,686 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

Additional comment: here is a very very very rough salary comparison calculator to get a highly superficial idea of the difference in costs: https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-l.../lisbon/zurich

Again, that of course says nothing about what you can expect to earn as we don't know what you do.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03.06.2016, 16:16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Zurich
Posts: 346
Groaned at 57 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 228 Times in 127 Posts
Dandy is considered unworthyDandy is considered unworthyDandy is considered unworthy
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

Check this graph (federal statistics/OECD). Given income (monthly gross) and number of children it will tell you if you will have a low,middle or upper class living style.


http://images.nzz.ch/eos/v2/image/vi...d-original.jpg
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Dandy for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 03.06.2016, 17:44
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,384
Groaned at 101 Times in 66 Posts
Thanked 1,447 Times in 839 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

Quote:
View Post
Check this graph (federal statistics/OECD). Given income (monthly gross) and number of children it will tell you if you will have a low,middle or upper class living style.


http://images.nzz.ch/eos/v2/image/vi...d-original.jpg


This is gross monthly whole-country average. For Zurich one can easily add about 10-15% for more expensive housing.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank yacek for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 03.06.2016, 19:19
JoeUK's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Au
Posts: 630
Groaned at 30 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 817 Times in 441 Posts
JoeUK has an excellent reputationJoeUK has an excellent reputationJoeUK has an excellent reputationJoeUK has an excellent reputation
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

I hope you don't like kebabs, they're really pricey here and filled with the meat of animals that go to the gym.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank JoeUK for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 03.06.2016, 19:25
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 11,520
Groaned at 87 Times in 78 Posts
Thanked 17,506 Times in 7,785 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

Inflation is pretty low to nearly non-existent in Switzerland. The old threads covering the topic are still accurate.
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 03.06.2016, 19:42
Troublawesome's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Zug
Posts: 1,089
Groaned at 237 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 1,143 Times in 511 Posts
Troublawesome has earned some respectTroublawesome has earned some respect
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

Easy, 120k x 4
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Troublawesome for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 03.06.2016, 22:37
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Zurich
Posts: 346
Groaned at 57 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 228 Times in 127 Posts
Dandy is considered unworthyDandy is considered unworthyDandy is considered unworthy
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

Quote:
View Post
This is gross monthly whole-country average. For Zurich one can easily add about 10-15% for more expensive housing.
You are right, especially Zurich and Geneva are definitely more expensive
(about 15-25%) Basel and Bern are also more expensive (about 5-15%) but not as bad as Zurich and Geneva.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04.06.2016, 09:50
Karl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 1,937
Groaned at 185 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 2,843 Times in 918 Posts
Karl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

You will scrape by on 80K, be very comfortable at 150K.

The middle there is 115K. I wouldn't move here for less.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Karl for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 04.06.2016, 11:34
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 740
Groaned at 110 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 765 Times in 374 Posts
DerDieDas has a reputation beyond reputeDerDieDas has a reputation beyond reputeDerDieDas has a reputation beyond reputeDerDieDas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

Juntilhas, just a few points so you don't set your expectations too high. Public kindergarten/schools are free in Switzerland but they are only until 12:00, until a bit later in as the child grows but almost never full day. This means if your wife wants to work, you will need to arrange after school care, which, if you make more than 120K, will not be subsidized and can amount to 73 CHF per day per child. Similarly the nurseries can set you up to 2000 CHF per child for the whole week.

Add to this the possible difficulty of finding a job for your wife, unless she is in a sought after area or speaks German and even if she works, she has to make more than enough to cover child-care for 2 children, so it might be best to assume that you will be dependent on your own salary.


Still I would say after you get over the initial cost of moving and setting up home, you should be fairly comfortably off if you make upwards of 110K and don't spend any on child care out of that.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank DerDieDas for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 04.06.2016, 12:22
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,081
Groaned at 127 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 8,672 Times in 3,280 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

Quote:
View Post
Still I would say after you get over the initial cost of moving and setting up home, you should be fairly comfortably off if you make upwards of 110K and don't spend any on child care out of that.
And get a taste for Ramen noodles.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank slammer for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 08.06.2016, 13:26
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Portugal
Posts: 6
Groaned at 7 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
Juntilhas has no particular reputation at present
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

Hi!

Thanks everyone for your comments!

I took a deep search on EF and I just got to the conclusion that this really depends on your lifestyle, as things as supermarket and eating out will have a huge impact on your monthly budget. From the research, I got to the conclusion I should get a minimum of 8500CHF Net per month + 400CHF for childcare allowance (200CHF ea). Please take a look below at my expected monthly expenses and let me know if my assumptions seem reasonable for 2 adults and 2 kids (3 and 1 year old):
. Apartment Rent: 3000
. Basic (Electricity, Heating, Water, Garbage): 300
. Healt Insurance: 900
. Food/groceries: 1500
. Transports: 250
. Car (insurance + gas + road tax): 400
. TV/Internet/Mobile phones: 250

TOTAL: 6600 CHF + 1000CHF (Mortgage in home country) = 7600C CHF

So this would give approx 1300CHF left for savings/german lessons/clothes/travel/ski/vacations (twice a year). Of course I am not considering 3rd Pillar Pension Fund, but I guess this will be a specific subject to discuss. Are my assumptions correct? Is 1300CHF left per month doable for what I would like to do or should I raise my minimum net salary? I am as well counting with a 13th salary which I am not taking into account for the monthly budget as I want to keep it asside.

My big concern is how much do I have to get in terms of gross salary to have a net income of 8500CHF. I have been in several sites (Swiss Federal Tax Administration, Comparis, ...) and it seems the tax for Zurich for my situation (only one person earning, no church) considering for example 150000CHF/year will be about 10%, which means a net salary of 10400CHF (x13). However I have seen in EF that people earning around this salary are getting a difference between their gross and net salary more on the 25-30% range! My question is, are those sites were you get a tax of ~10% already taking everything into account, or is there anything else you need to add on top of that to calculate your net income (BFG - Berufliche Vorsorge(Gesetz), pension 2nd pillar,....)? If I add up all the taxes I have found I have:

. UVG - Unfallversicherung, accident insurance: 1.53% (supported by employer?)
. AHV - Alters- und Hinterlassenenversicherung - pension 1st pillar: 5,15%
. ALV - Unemployment: 1%
. BFG - Berufliche Vorsorge(Gesetz), pension 2nd pillar. 2%-11%
. KTG - Krankentaggeldversicherung, icome insurance in case of sickness: 1.07% (supported by employer?)

This gives a total of 17.15% considering 8% for BFG and taking into account that UVG and KTG will be paid by the company (this is the rule from what I have read). So, on top of this do I have to add the ~10% tax I am getting from those sites? That way I will achieve the 25-30% tax range that some people say that's what they get. Your comments are highly appreciated as this is crucial information to have before accepting or even negotiating an offer...

Sorry for the long post, but I hope that with your inputs it will be a great help for everybody having the same concerns about a possible relocation to Switzerland.


Thank you very much to you all!!!
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Juntilhas for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 08.06.2016, 17:28
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Zurich
Posts: 346
Groaned at 57 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 228 Times in 127 Posts
Dandy is considered unworthyDandy is considered unworthyDandy is considered unworthy
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

Check this out:


http://www.bruttonetto.ch/


and:


https://www.steueramt.zh.ch/internet...ung/npers.html
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08.06.2016, 18:47
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Luzern
Posts: 33
Groaned at 6 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Sena has no particular reputation at present
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

From gross to net salary there will be deductions of pensions, AHV/IV etc plus taxes which depends on where do live( different on each Kanton ) if you will have B permit for the begining of your stay .Approximately you can consider 23/25% deduction from your gross to net including taxes ( monthly)

To be able to receive net amount of 8.500 chf / monthly you should agree minumum on 11KCHF or even beter 12KCHF monthly salary.

In any case ask simulation of your salary to see from gross to net amount from the HR of your companythat you will be working for .

Dont forget mobile phone costs monthly , billag annual cost , and some several insuarances except health insuarances that you would need to have ...

Hope it helps .

Cheers
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sena for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 08.06.2016, 18:59
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Zurich

130K and up, I should imagine. And please do not underestimate how expensive it can be here for things that are ridiculously cheap elsewhere - baby wipes and cotton wool spring to mind.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
This user groans at for this post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to live comfortably in CH on less than 120k - EF savings advice thread Guest Daily life 233 27.10.2018 23:35
salary needed for a family of 5 in Basel kaatrina Family matters/health 193 06.12.2013 10:45
Amazingly, you can live comfortably in Zurich on a 6-figure income atwzurich Daily life 0 09.10.2011 18:43
Salary needed for family of 4 to live comfortably in Basel sbstreett Family matters/health 73 20.04.2010 15:01
What is a good salary in Zurich to allow one to live comfortably needhelp Employment 43 22.07.2008 16:13


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0